069 - Toyin Augustus: Choosing Love as Liberation
Welcome back to Threshold Moments. Today I’m excited to share an inspiring conversation with social justice professional, Toyin Augustus.
Toyin Augustus is an educator, DEI practitioner and former Olympian utilizing her skills and experience to invest in transformational social justice. In her 17 years of experience in private and public schools, Toyin has created equitable policies, encouraged inclusive practices, and facilitated educational opportunities for students, educators and adult caretakers.
Together we talk about Toyin’s first major threshold of choosing her passion for running track over pursuing a traditional career after college, and how that choice catalyzed her struggles and successes throughout her life. We also explore what’s missing from the diversity, equity, and inclusion industry, and how Toyin uses everything in her life, including motherhood, to offer more love in the face of oppressive forces.
Tune in to learn more about:
The power of embracing the restorative nature of making mistakes
How it is possible to become both softer and stronger as we grow older
What it takes to not retaliate, to have boundaries, and to move with love in the face of ongoing oppression
Why community is essential for healing in a society that over-values independence
Connect with Sarah:
Connect with Toyin:
Learn more about Across the Tracks Consulting
Episode Transcript
Sarah Tacy [00:00:05]
Hello welcome, I'm Sarah Tacy and this is Threshold Moments, the podcast where guests and I share stories about the process of updating into truer versions of ourselves. The path is unknown and the pull feels real. Together we share our grief, laughter, love and life saving tools. Join us. Hello and welcome to Threshold Moments.
Sarah Tacy [00:00:42]
Today we have with us Toyin Augustus. I felt so lit up after this conversation. Toyin has a remarkable life. I think what I'm finding myself most interested in with a guest that I speak to is the way it is possible as we get older to become both softer and stronger, more resilient, more supple, have more buoyancy, if you will, in life, as opposed to becoming more resentful and hardened. Because as we go along in life, there can be a stacking of hard things that happen, things that make us grieve.
Sarah Tacy [00:01:36]
And as Toyin points out in this story, too, there are many categories into which she falls in which life would become harder due to cultural oppression, biases, the way society has set things up for white supremacy, for patriarchy. And her story, in my mind, shows what the human spirit can do, what her faith in God does for her, what her efforts do, what consistency does. At the end, there's a line of I choose not to be an oppressor and to really listen to what that takes, to not retaliate, to have boundaries, to move with love. I have not even mentioned any of her accolades, one being that she just set the new world record in her age group for the hurdles that she was an Olympian in 2008. So there are many impressive things that she's done in life.
Sarah Tacy [00:02:59]
She's a mother, she does work to bring more social justice to this earth. She is a human who inspires. And I feel so blessed literally that like she was preparing, she's going to practice right after our interview and was attempting another world's record for outdoor track the very next day after this. So just a really awesome human and why, you know, I was just like, I'll just give a little teaser to learn why she actually at this age decide, you know what, I'm going to go and compete again. It's a nervous system trauma resolution release type answer that then just kept growing into for how I see it, more empowerment and strength and processing and coming back to 1 score.
Sarah Tacy [00:03:51]
So that was a long intro. I'm clearly very excited. I hope you like this interview as much as I do and please if you have the time, listen all the way through to the end cause the gems keep coming. Blessings and enjoy. Hello and welcome to Threshold Moments.
Sarah Tacy [00:04:17]
My name is Sarah Tacy and we have with us Toyin Augustus. Toyin was a Nigerian 100m hurdler, Olympian Twain is a mother, a very recent master's world record holder in the 100m hurdles, and a social justice professional who centers diversity, equity, inclusion, justice and belonging as the founder of Across the Tracks Consulting and Twain. When I looked up when I just started putting up your name immediately under Google it said God is worthy to be praised and that that is linked with your name and so I'm just welcome.
Toyin Augustus [00:05:01]
Thank you, Oh my goodness, I appreciate that. And God is and that is the meaning of my name. The Lord deserves praiseworthy of praise. And ever since I've known that and understood that, it has really resonated with me. And I carry with me the idea that names are so important and critical to who we can be like, to our potential and who we are right like that. We oftentimes can live into that in such beautiful ways. And so that that's always been with me. So thank you for naming that and noticing that. That gives me joy to hear that. And yeah, that's pretty much me.
Toyin Augustus [00:05:41]
The only slight correction there. So my Masters world record wasn't the hurdles, but it's the 60 meter hurdles for indoor. And now that we've started the outdoor season for my age group in masters, the event is 80m hurdles. And that's the difference from when I was competing in elite track and field and it was 100 meter hurdles. So they give us 20 meters less.
Toyin Augustus [00:06:02]
I don't need it. I would still do the 100 meters we have. We have 80m hurdles and tomorrow I will be attempting the world record in my age group for the 80 meter hurdles so see how that goes.
Sarah Tacy [00:06:17]
And nobody can see this, but we're both wearing gold. And I just feel like that's really, really holding the field for what's possible. I love that. So I became aware of you via my cousin Michelle Roberts, and she knows you through Phillips Exeter Academy. And she was just like, I just think that you would really love interviewing this woman.
Sarah Tacy [00:06:46]
And so I got to look you up and I was so grateful when you said yes. And I'm going through your timeline. And before we got on here, I was describing, well, this, this podcast is about thresholds and this is how I see a threshold. And you're like, I have at least four of them. So as I looked at your timeline and I see you winning golds and 1st place and then going to the Olympics, Well maybe do you want to say anything about that before I jump to a then do you want to say anything about your early career and what it would like to be you at that point in your life?
Toyin Augustus [00:07:28]
Gosh, my early career, I mean, like I was running track since middle school. It was like fun. It was a thing I could do and then I was good at it. So I kept doing it. And I did it in high school and had state records.
Toyin Augustus [00:07:39]
I believe I still have a couple out there in Alabama and really grateful for that. And just the love of the sport started to grow and then was able to get a scholarship to compete at Penn State where I was like, oh gosh, there's a lot of good people. The college experience where the convergence of greatness to a certain extent really enjoyed my time there. And I had the opportunity to like kind of do what everyone was doing in college, like getting jobs afterwards. And I remember having an interview where the interviewer was like, sounds like you could keep doing this track thing.
Toyin Augustus [00:08:16]
You get a job later. Like you could, you know, why don't you just keep pursuing? I was like, oh, good idea, right. And so I, I hadn't thought about like, oh gosh, continue to run. I thought about it, but it didn't really feel real. And so I, I did decide to pursue that. And so I started competing post collegiately, moved to Atlanta and had a coach in a group down there for a little while. And it was rough, but it was rough and I'd say I was sneaking up on my first threshold moment at that point, having kind of like dropped the whole go make money and like be whatever, whatever the start living into the American dream, if you will, time. And then if you want, we can we can talk about that that. Yeah, please, please.
Toyin Augustus [00:08:56]
It was really interesting because I have always been like so responsible with all my things like school and money and my time. Just a very kind of type A, if you will, individual. And then I didn't do the job thing right. And so I was like, OK, I'm going to pursue this passion. And you know, that's always like a journey towards starving artists, you know, So I was like, I'm going to do it.
Toyin Augustus [00:09:20]
I mean, so I thought I was really prepared and didn't have a lot of debt, just like, you know, some school loans and started training and I had like a coach and I need to get a car and I need to like live. And so I was trying to get everything together, but I wasn't really making money like I needed to. And I thought I was going to go to Europe and compete and it didn't quite work out. And then it was so this was graduated in O1. I was trying to make O 4 Olympics, ended up going to Nigeria for my Olympic trials and getting 2nd.
Toyin Augustus [00:09:54]
And so I qualified and I needed to like improve on my time. So this is O 4, right? So, you know, I didn't go to the Olympics, right? Like we know that we know how that ended because my Olympics were O 8. And so in O four, I was, I still had my Nigerian passport and I needed a visa to get to Europe.
Toyin Augustus [00:10:16]
And so I was struggling trying to figure out like how I was going to do that. And my agent had sent me to the UK and I was going to do all this to get this like Schengen visa. And it just, it didn't work out and I had to come home and Nigeria was like, yeah, we're going to send you a ticket. You know, we're going to like, you know, make sure you get over. And I was like, I couldn't go to Europe to make money.
Toyin Augustus [00:10:38]
I couldn't figure out like how I was going to like, continue to like, support myself because I really needed to make that money in Europe with competitions. And when I came back, Nigeria then was like kind of giving me the federation representatives were giving me a run around about my ticket to the Olympics. This was Athens, I believe in O 4, a really cool one, right, like Greek Olympics like and I didn't end up going. They didn't send the ticket, they didn't send money. I didn't go to Europe.
Toyin Augustus [00:11:07]
I have been like working at Starbucks, which is great actually at the time, although thoughts about Starbucks right now. OK, we can do better. That job was really supportive of me at the time, but it was a lot. I was getting up at like 4:00 in the morning and working until noon or you know, 5 to 1 or whatever the schedules were and I just again, I wasn't making enough money. So I wasn't making enough money.
Toyin Augustus [00:11:29]
I went to Nigeria and did what I needed to do for the trials and they didn't send me a ticket. I didn't get to go to Europe. I didn't make money and I had spent so much money and I was like, Oh my God, like what is what's happening? Like you don't want me to do this? Like is this not my purpose? Is this not what I'm supposed to be doing? Am I doing something wrong? Am I being punished? You know, all the ideas, thoughts, like in my mind and everything at the fan and my threshold moment, if you will, my point on the ground, on my knees, literally in my one bedroom apartment that I had been sharing. But then my roommate had moved down crazy. Just found myself like I can't do anything right. Like I'm stuck. And I got to give it all up. And I remember just the tears, like that really ugly, messy cry.
Sarah Tacy [00:12:20]
Those are the good ones.
Toyin Augustus [00:12:22]
Yeah, yeah. To, like, understand needing to be held and there was nobody, you know, I felt like there was nobody. So I mean, I called my mom. I remember calling my mom and she was amazing. And she, I thought she was going to be like, I told you to get a job.
Toyin Augustus [00:12:40]
She did it. She's great. She was just like, you know, you, you could have called earlier. I'm here. And I was like, they're going to repossess my car. They did it. They repossess my car. I had to move out. I couldn't pay my rent. And I was like, I have to give it all up.
Sarah Tacy [00:12:55]
And I pause here for a moment. I think I'm just wanting to reflect on a few things, which is just how dedicated and how hard you are working. And I think in our culture, and when I say our culture, like in the US here at least there is such a like, the less you need other people and the more you do things on your own, the more you're celebrated. And so here you are and you've come so far and you've done so much and you're doing all the things you're supposed to do. And then when you're asking the people who are supposed to help you and like want you to go somewhere to not get that, I can imagine how heartbreaking that is.
Sarah Tacy [00:13:39]
And then in that moment when you said like, and your mom was there and she picked up the phone, I'm just for myself, thinking of times where for me, I don't know if this is your experience. For me, sometimes in my hardest moments, it's not that there aren't people who wouldn't pick up the phone, but I'm so used to trying to figure it out on my own. And in the part where you're like, am I doing? It's like asking, God, am I doing something wrong? Did I do something wrong?
Sarah Tacy [00:14:02]
I wonder if the listeners ever feel like this. Like when you're, you're following your poll and you're following the thing you're supposed to do and nothing seems to be like showing up and supporting it. That that real question of I thought I was taking the risk to follow the poll. Shouldn't the world be showing up to like? And I still, I think there's just such bravery that you that you took it as far as you did and you tried as hard as you did and you reached out to all the people that you did.
Toyin Augustus [00:14:32]
Josh, thank you. I appreciate that a lot. You know, just that recognition of all the ways that we try to do all the things and I received that because, you know, I I'm proud of that. And it is like a level of oppression, though, right, to put ourselves particularly, I'm going to say, just speaking for my identity as a woman, as a black woman, as a black woman, child of immigrants, right, that there's so much that you have to do. There's so much that's expected of you. And there's not as much grace for dropping the ball, right? And there's not as much safety Nets for not getting it done, right? And so my parents don't have, you know, the generational wealth in this country to back me up when I fall that as a child of immigrants, like they're like, come on, we came over here for a reason. But I get figure it out, get it to get, you know, And so there's a lot that you hold. It's a lot of weight and responsibility and it shouldn't be that much, right?
Toyin Augustus [00:15:40]
And then as a woman, I think that there's less leeway also for not doing all the things that we're supposed to be able to do. And as a Black person in this country who's been socialized to be Black in this country, which is different from, because I'm not, you know, a descendant of enslaved people, being an immigrant here and coming willfully, there's still like, this expectation that if you mess up, it's your fault. If you don't get it, it's your fault. Different from oh, it could be like the systems and the process and something, you know, in some way the structure should be more supportive, right? It's like you and that whole individualistic idea, I think in this Western culture can be very oppressive and damaging.
Toyin Augustus [00:16:27]
And so, but we do it, right? We do it and we fall into that way of being. And then when we don't do it, what happens from my perspective is the shame cycle where it's like, oh, it's me, I'm the problem, right? What did I do wrong, right? And you can hear that in my narrative, like what was mine, my issue or my, my shortcoming that caused this to happen.
Toyin Augustus [00:16:48]
And I do believe that we can and should take responsibility for where we do have power to do things differently and make change. And I do think that there's a lot of systems at play that keep us from being able to do that as well. So it's definitely a both end in my story and I think in in all of our stories. And when we fall, it's like, Oh, it's me, right? And I just, I, I would tell my past self and as I hold her that, you know, there's a lot of things at play. Yes, you can do better. And there's other places and spaces where better can be done for you as well.
Sarah Tacy [00:17:23]
Yeah, and I interrupted your story to take that call to be able to say that because sometimes even building the context that you just added there is so significant. So I'm so glad that we did take that time to build an even more context to the story. So it's 2004. You've called your mom, your car has been repossessed. You have done everything you can do to fulfill this dream thus far.
Toyin Augustus [00:17:53]
And she offered support, financial support, emotional support, and we made a plan and it didn't involve me giving up on the dream. And I really appreciate her modeling that for me that that was that was an option because I was ready for, well, you messed up, so better do something different. That wasn't it. And we prayed together, which is something that she's always modeled for me as well, that that's an option. And that is a good option.
Toyin Augustus [00:18:22]
And so I kept going, I kept training and I ended up moving to California. When did I move to California? Actually? So let me, let me try to backtrack here. 2004 So it didn't work out. I was like, all right, Nigeria, like I don't know if I'm messing with, but I, I stayed in Atlanta. I continue to train. I moved, I got a different roommate, I got a different job. I was personal training. I was doing all kinds of stuff feels a little better.
Toyin Augustus [00:18:47]
I met an amazing woman who was, who I was training at La Fitness at the time. And she is now like, you know, I call her my godmother because I think God brought her into my life and I moved in with her and she let me live with her. And it was so much love there and really supported me in my journey. And then I decided to try to compete for Nigeria again. They called me again and this time I was like, I'm not going anywhere until I get a check.
Toyin Augustus [00:19:17]
So I did end up competing in 2006 for Nigeria. I believe that was either all Africa Games, I think it was all Africa Games and Mauritius, I think that was 2006. Oh, it's been a minute, which was amazing. It was wonderful. I loved that experience.
Toyin Augustus [00:19:33]
So I guess just in transition, it was just amazing to see how God like turned all of that into lots of lessons for me in reaching out and not being an island in getting support that I needed in shifting things around and that there was a path forward, right. And so I, I'm not sure that I learned all the things I needed to learn, but I did learn and was able to continue the journey and move forward. Even just an encouragement. And to be honest, I think what I needed to learn was that. I can fall and get back up in in a really big way.
Toyin Augustus [00:20:03]
So I think that was probably the biggest and most important lesson that I learned and so that it became like my testimony, right that you know, won't he do it? You know, yes, he will. So 2006 lots of success there. I got gold. It was like, you know, see God, you know, lots of praise in our getting, creating these bracelets and these autographed cards when I was in Europe saying blessed to be a blessing, right?
Toyin Augustus [00:20:28]
Like that I have all of these blessings that I've gotten and that I should be sharing it. It's not just about me, right? And there's other people who need love and care and support and encouragement. And, and I wanted to be that for other people. And I don't remember exactly when, but I, I eventually did start managing myself and meets in Europe.
Toyin Augustus [00:20:48]
I think my first few years I had an agent for sure. And then I started managing myself and I was able to do that. I was able to like bless some other people by supporting them and getting over to Europe and, and doing track meets as well. So 2006, 2007, then 2008 came around and it was time to try out the Olympics again. And I was like, I'm not buying a ticket because I'd spent so much money and done all the things.
Toyin Augustus [00:21:13]
And this time, you know, Nigeria came through better as well. And I had some more connections in Nigeria and I had moved to California by this time and was training with a new coach whose wife I had met in Europe. And then I, I, you know, she was like, he's a great coach if you don't want it. Because I was like, I need warmer weather. I need so many more things. And my sister was living in California at the time as well. So moved over to California and started competing out here and trading out here and still heading over to Europe. And I would head over to Europe in the winter for a month or two and then in the summer for a month or two and loved that experience, right? Like seeing the world, so many, I mean, like I visited like more than 30 different countries across, you know, around the world and seeing so many different cultures and experiencing people and places in ways that, you know, some people only dream. And of course, I'm always like working and hustling, like working, right, training and hustling and everything.
Toyin Augustus [00:22:13]
So there's always something to do. And I wasn't living it lavishly, right? I wasn't going to all the fancy places. It was, but I was in community with people and improving on my French and it was a really amazing, amazing time in my life. And I met a partner and that was in we met in O 8 as we were both trying to get ready for the Olympics and he started training with my coach as well. And so that's a whole another story that leads to another threshold that we might not get into in this interview.
Sarah Tacy [00:22:47]
We'll do a Part 2 sometime. Sounds good. So 2008 you go to the Olympics and then you continue to train. And I also just like, as you were talking about this going around the world and being in at least 30 different countries, you were really lighting up and, and I, I was thinking like, I, I bet in those moments, she was so glad that that first interview person was like, why don't you keep running? But I had to also hold that with the truth of like the first four years of that experience, I'm not sure I've had the math right there. But the first years of the that experience of that first go round so that there is like the experience of both when you take that risk that you really lived both parts of that risk.
Toyin Augustus [00:23:34]
Yeah, I continue to hold the both end of that, that there's multiple truths evident there that there was that joyful moment I felt very successful and I wasn't rich. You know, I was still struggling like at any moment I could like not make enough to like pay my bills. So it wasn't easy. It was just like such a huge nod at like, yes, this is what you should be doing, right? And it wasn't.
Toyin Augustus [00:24:00]
It was enough reassurance to sustain the parts that weren't easy because financially I was still struggling. You know, overall, make it make a chunk of money here and is all dependent on how well I performed, not how hard I worked of how well I performed. So I can work my **** off right for months and not perform or get an injury or whatever and I wouldn't get paid. It wasn't like a salary where it's like, oh, I can like, you know, not do really great this quarter and still, you know, still get paid. No, it was all dependent on the success that came from that.
Sarah Tacy [00:24:33]
So I know that clearly female salaries and male salaries are very different. This is an area I am really unsure about because I think in the Olympic Olympics were male sprinters who are running the same races as you running the same race as far as like finances go? Like was there a difference between male and females who are doing the exact same thing?
Toyin Augustus [00:24:59]
It's probably a complicated answer that I don't have all the details to, but what I can say is this, I, one of the things I love about track and field is that it's very objective. And in Europe and, and again, like, you know, there's US context and then there's like global context. And we, we know that the ways in which we deal with money are, are different and different context in different countries. And so for track and field at a competition, they have prize money and the prize money typically does not differ between male and female events. So male 100 meter runners, female 100 meter runners, like the prize money is 10,000, you get 10,000 irregardless if it's one 1000, you know, you get 1000.
Toyin Augustus [00:25:45]
Now what they might say is, well, the 100 meter runners, that's a gold level event. So their prize money is 10,000 for winning. But like the 200 or the hurdles or long jump or something like that might have like 1500 or something, you know? And also the track meets all have different events. And so I know that when I was competing back in the day in France, there were tons of female hurdlers.
Toyin Augustus [00:26:09]
So almost every French competition had women's hurdles. It didn't always have the triple jump, it didn't always have the 400 hurdles or something like that, but they always had the short hurdles. 100 hurdles are the one 10s for men. And so the different events had different like, you know, value in terms of whether the meet directors would even host the event and then the amount of money that would be attributed to winning or getting top three or top 6 or whatever event. So those were the differentiators for the most part in terms of getting paid for competitions.
Toyin Augustus [00:26:41]
Now there's different ways that you can get paid, right? And so sponsorship was another one and that's, I would say way more lucrative than the track meets themselves. You can only do so many track meets. And so if you were sponsored by Nike or Mizuno or Adidas, right, they have their different contracts. And I think that's where you would see more of the discrepancy or differentiation in what athletes got paid.
Toyin Augustus [00:27:05]
And we all know what Allison Felix went through. We don't all know. But for those who know what Allison Felix, who was like such a decorated US track and field athlete, amazing human, by the way, what she went through in terms of, oh, you're, you know, you're pregnant or you can't do that. You know, there was a lot of like her contract was, you know, biased in that way, right? Because men are going to be impacted with childbirth in the same ways that women are.
Toyin Augustus [00:27:29]
And so companies like, you know, Nike and Adidas and Mizuno and New Balance and all that, they have the option of creating contracts that are biased based on gender, maybe even race, you know, and I haven't seen those contracts. So I can't speak like in a in an educated manner in terms of what they actually say. But we do know that someone like Allison Felix did walk away from a pretty big contract based on what they were offering. That was not OK. So, yeah, so in some ways very objective and unbiased in track and field and in other ways, very much still problematic. Yeah.
Sarah Tacy [00:28:05]
Can you tell me a little bit of your transition? I'm, I'm jumping here a little bit, but your transition from track and field, I could be jumping so big here from track and field into motherhood.
Toyin Augustus [00:28:19]
Yeah, You know, it's interesting because like as a track athlete who is a woman and, you know, I told you I, I found a partner in 2008 and we were married in 2011. Of course I'm going to be thinking about whether or not like having a kid is, is something that's good for me. Actually, let me say that I, I dated somebody in Europe and for like a couple years that I met, it was, it was very cute, right? Like it's like, oh, this.
Sarah Tacy [00:28:50]
I can tell why.
Toyin Augustus [00:28:50]
This time Paris and Belgium, I guess, you know, it was hard because like we adored each other and part of what was challenging was that I was like, I'm still competing. I don't know what you're thinking about, but like, I'm not about to like give all this up. So I'm like, so I can start having a family because it's a huge sacrifice, right? Like this is my career and it's not quite where I want it to be yet. And So what you're asking of me is big, right?
Toyin Augustus [00:29:16]
And so that that didn't end up working out. So Fast forward 2011 partner again or 2008 and then 2011 we get married and I'm like, part of what's going on in my head is like, Oh, I heard that after you have a kid, like you're actually stronger. And I'm like, I believe that because that is a workout for 10 months, if I ever knew 1. And so just even deciding that that was something I wanted to do was like a big question and trying to like justify it with this whole like narrative around like, am I going to be stronger after childbirth? But I, I was actually coming.
Toyin Augustus [00:29:52]
So my daughter was born in 2012. So I was coming out of my career and it planned on doing like a little bit of like a, I'm going to have to start this family, have this kid and I'm going to go back into training. And so that was kind of like the idea. And I don't know, I was fine with the idea at that at that time had moved into like kind of a, a different phase of life, if you will. And had seen, I think it was important to see some examples of female athletes who had kids and we're still competing and we're seeing so much more of that, like just the strong, amazing women with their kids being like, yeah, I did this, did that, you know what I mean?
Toyin Augustus [00:30:31]
Like, and I can, I can keep doing it right. And messages around like, you can do it all right, you know, within reason. Because then we get back into the like, why are we trying to do it all and do it all perfectly? We, I think we're better served to live in the imperfection of that then to try to do all that perfectly. So, So, yeah, I mean, I don't really know exactly how to answer your question except that the, the journey to that decision was interesting, complicated and felt not that difficult when the, when the time was right, again, different phase of my life.
Toyin Augustus [00:31:02]
I was like in my 30s at that point. And so I was also like, you know, you're not that young. You're like in 20 something. You might be like, I'm not ready to have a kid. But I will say that after when she start, when my daughter started to like be able to walk and like it was just, it's, it's been really, really, really important to me that I model the type of person, female black athlete, just citizen of this world that I want her to see and emulate my purpose behind the way that I moved in the world became bigger for me.
Toyin Augustus [00:31:50]
And because she's a girl, right? Like we share the intersections of our identities that we share, I think are so critical to how she moves and how people see her. And so I just, I continue, she's 11 now, right? I, I continue to try to not prevent her from seeing harshness in this world or I'll try to like save her from hurting, but try to equip her with the skills and the knowledge to where she can make the decisions without me. I'm not always going to be there.
Toyin Augustus [00:32:27]
And I cringe at some of the things that she brings home. And I know that I'm missing so much of what she is taking in from this world. And there's no way that I could be there for all the things. And so the best thing I can do for her is to prepare her for what she might see and not specifically like this situation, that situation, although I do that, do that as well, but more holistically as who do you want to be? How do you want to show up?
Toyin Augustus [00:32:53]
What do you want people to know of you and think of you and see in you? And what is it that you want to give to the world, right. And so these are big ideas that she doesn't quite fully grasp. But when she gets in trouble, what she did like last week in school, I'm like, I did not raise you to behave in this way. And this is not who you are.
Toyin Augustus [00:33:17]
I know who you are and I'm proud of who you are. I'm not proud of this decision that you made. I am not happy with this decision that you made. And people are hurt by this decision. I'm hurt by this decision. And you can do better. And I want to love you into doing better. There's going to be consequences to these actions. There already have been. And you can come out of that.
Toyin Augustus [00:33:40]
You can make a different decision. You can put down whatever it is that you picked up to think that this was OK. And you can just you can, you can choose to restore and reconcile. I was really proud of her actually, just as a sidebar that the thing that she did was it wasn't that big in my opinion. And the way that people saw it.
Toyin Augustus [00:34:01]
I think also based on, you know, her, her socialized identities was bigger than I think it would have been if it was a different body. What I was proud of was that she took the initiative to reach out to her friend and write an apology letter. And this is something that we've done before where it's like, oh, you made a mistake or you created harm. And what you want to do in this moment is to acknowledge it, see if you can make it right, and choose to not behave in that way again. And so the fact that she went ahead and already took the initiative to write that apology letter and really acknowledge what she did and where the harm was and that she didn't want to do it again, just to me was like, yeah, So it's like a mommy when I was like, yes, that's who I want you to be in this world.
Toyin Augustus [00:34:52]
Because we're always going to make mistakes. We're always going to create harm, big and small. And we do not have to become the harm, right? We do not have to let that become who we are, right? We are all more than the worst thing we've ever done.
Toyin Augustus [00:35:06]
That's a quote that I love. Each of us is more than the worst thing we've ever done. And I, I think it's so important for us to remember that it moves us away from shame cycles that say you are the thing as opposed to you did a thing. And we just don't have enough of that, I think in the world. And I'm glad that she was able to move in that restorative way. And I hope she carries that. That's a mom teaching that I want. I want her like in 10 years to be like my mom always said, you know?
Sarah Tacy [00:35:37]
When she's on a podcast or whatever.
Toyin Augustus [00:35:39]
Hey, why is mom? You know, I haven't done a lot. I don't have all the things well, but you know, take my wins where I can.
Sarah Tacy [00:35:47]
I mean, I love the boundaries matched with love and the boundaries matched with I see you and I know you for who you absolutely are and being there as a reminder, it sounds like from here that you're there as a reminder of I know exactly who you are. And I think sometimes, sometimes in our own lives, and I think you're saying that you're, you're hoping she'll have this too. Is like, I can say in my life that there have been times where I'm like, Oh, this is out of alignment. And not just what I've said or what I've done, but it could even be like where I'm at in life. Like it could be one of those mornings where I look in the mirror.
Sarah Tacy [00:36:26]
I'm like, wait, I created this, I created this life, but how come I don't feel alive or aligned within it, right? Like I don't know if that makes sense how it lines up, but that we, I think we have to become that reminder for ourselves, as you were saying, to know who we are, to know who we absolutely are, to be able to fall, to be able to get back up. And what a beautiful gift to have a mother figure be that for you, right? Because so much of the work we do as adults is like remothering ourselves and realizing like, we have to be our own mothers. And I have a mother that I love. So I'm not saying this as like, I'm not throwing.
Sarah Tacy [00:37:14]
Anywhere but it's, Yeah, really, really beautiful. And I'm guessing you could tell me if I'm wrong here, but I'm guessing that some of your clarity in the ways of harm was caused and this is not who you are. And here's how there can be repairs. I'm guessing that also plays into a lot of what you teach within your work these days. Absolutely.
Sarah Tacy [00:37:43]
How like the work you're doing the world? Like she can just, she can see it by who you're being, but also what you're spreading. Would you be willing to talk to us about the work you do in the world now, on top of being a world record breaker?
Toyin Augustus [00:38:00]
Yeah, side hustles.
Sarah Tacy [00:38:02]
Yeah.
Toyin Augustus [00:38:02]
Side hustles. Oh my gosh, thank you so much for that. I just want to name that like part of that whole like remothering idea is I, I've learned through theories of transactional analysis and our child ego states, our adult States and in our parenting states. And yes, I, our parent voices are the voices that become our adult voices and they continue to speak to our child ego. And I want for the moments when the world it wants to shame that the voice inside that was once my voice becomes her voice to say, you are good, you are right, you are valuable.
Toyin Augustus [00:38:51]
And when you make mistakes, that you are still those things and you can like do better, that you can make a change, that you can restore. And it is absolutely 100% that the part of the work that I'm doing and such a critical part of the work that I'm doing with Across the Tracks and my equity and inclusion journey, that is both personal and professional. That I, I live into this work. And that I, I also want to model this work for, for people in the way that I move in a world that is broken and constantly creating harm. That we can be the healers, that we can invest in different ideas of ourselves and of our communities to reimagine something that's closer to our origins and impacts our futures to where we can all be more liberated beings.
Toyin Augustus [00:39:57]
I know it sounds like idealistic and lofty and all of those things. And I love it. You know, I, I, I hold that. And I'm like, yes, it is all of those things. And it is very practical. It is very skill based. It is very tools based. It is the bold and of, you know, tree hugging and policy making, right? Like it all needs to live together, that we need to live together in our differences. And that's, that's really where we start with this work.
Toyin Augustus [00:40:30]
And so across the Tracks is consultancy that I, that I created. And then I created it with this idea that there's bridges that we need to build across the metaphorical tracks. And if we are aware of the history of this country, parts of the history of this country and how railroad tracks, you know, were, were built, dividing communities, and on one side of the tracks were these people, on the other side of the tracks were these people. And those people didn't mix and they didn't connect. And we need to reconnect.
Toyin Augustus [00:40:58]
That part of this work at its core, is reconnecting to each other and our humanity. And so my, my org, if you will, myself and the colleagues that I partner with seek to build these bridges that allow us to be authentic in ourselves and in our relationships so that we can start embracing thoughts and feelings and behaviors, right? Like, what am I thinking about you? What am I thinking about myself? How can I think differently?
Toyin Augustus [00:41:25]
What am I feeling? How does what you say land on me, what I say land on you, right? And what can I do about it, right? And so when we have those three things, like working in partnership, that we can create sustainable change, I'm in that sustainable change can really transform our futures and transform us as people. And the ultimate goal is to allow all of us to feel empowered.
Toyin Augustus [00:41:46]
Word invaluable for all of us to feel more humanized, right? So this is humanizing work in the way that I see. And there's a lot DEI is this and DEI is that. And I'm like, I'm sorry, are you practicing anything and how do you understand it? Can we like go back to definitions a little bit and get to a better understanding?
Toyin Augustus [00:42:03]
Because I do think that we would find more places that we agree that we disagree. The practices can definitely look different. And I can't say that I agree with every DEI practitioner out there because we're all working through our stuff. And I believe in the transformational possibilities that we have in this world when we can care for each other and humanize each other.
Sarah Tacy [00:42:25]
DEI is diversity, equity, and inclusion.
Toyin Augustus [00:42:28]
Yes. And there's the J for Justice and there's AB for belonging. And it is an industry that obviously erupted, if you will, post George Floyd summer, and yet has been going and working for like dozens of years before that and has evolved and will continue to evolve. And you know that that was a threshold moment, right? For the US, for the world to see that.
Toyin Augustus [00:42:56]
And So what do we do with our threshold moment? What have we learned? What do we get rid of? What do we keep? And I think a lot of organizations and individuals are asking themselves this question.
Toyin Augustus [00:43:07]
And it's fascinating to listen to folks and see, you know, where they are making sense of what's happening and what continues to happen. And I'm always excited about what the artists are doing and how they're creating and recreating for us to visualize what's possible and also what's happened because we do need to reflect upon all that's happened. So yeah, I'm, I'm working with organizations, social service organizations, educational institutions. Now I've moved out from working as a diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging director at an Independent School that was rather harmful to my body and into serving communities that want to do this work in a transformational way. Not everyone does.
Toyin Augustus [00:43:52]
That particular school was not interested in working in a transformative way and therefore responded in oppressive ways to what I wanted to offer. And it's OK to decide that you are not aligned. It's not OK then to utilize oppressive methods to silence and harm bodies. And so it's, it's been a journey to continue to heal from that. And I'm so grateful for where I am right now and how God used, you know, what's thumb meant for evil, for good in my life. And I'm trying to live into that and heal from the healing journey has been real. It's never been. Yeah, Thanks for saying that. Yeah.
Toyin Augustus [00:44:48]
Gosh, it's, yeah, it's such a struggle. It's such a struggle because I want to move in, love. I want to move in gentleness, I want to move in wisdom and I pray for those things. And I've been given opportunities to really work through that in countless ways. Just people who I've interacted with since that since that time.
Toyin Augustus [00:45:11]
And just to still feeling just very, very grateful and for the community that I built there and community that I've built outside of there. And the way that this journey continues to bless me because, yeah, only God knows what I've been through.
Sarah Tacy [00:45:27]
I'm listening to your languaging, and I'm guessing that you're saying as much as you're saying to not get into specific details because it involves other humans, I'm guessing. And so as I'm just kind of piercing together in my head, I just want to say that I imagine that when you go in to do really transformative work and that you have a vision of what that can be, that when you receive the opposite, like not even like support, but you receive the opposite, how jarring and painful that is. And I hear that you're looking for the silver lining, which might be that you are free to do the work that you were here to do in your way without somebody else being the like the having a say over you. And I just want to honor how painful I imagine those mixed messages can be or experiences. Yeah.
Toyin Augustus [00:46:23]
Yeah, they can. They can. Thank you for saying that and hearing it. It is very painful. And I also recognize that. And this was part of my healing journey is that hurt people hurt people, right? And we say that and we know it. And then when we experienced it, it's really hard to hold. It's really, really hard to hold when someone is like leveraging harm on your body, on bodies of people that you'd love, you care about, and then someone asks you to love them. It's like, oh, you crazy.
Toyin Augustus [00:47:04]
You're crazy, right? Why would you? Why would you even offer that? That's madness, right? And yet I believe that's what we're called to do because offering the same back is not the solution.
Toyin Augustus [00:47:20]
What we want to do is hurt the people who are hurting us. And that's the model that we have in this country. And so we see that manifesting as eye for an eye, everybody's blind type of thing, right? You hurt me, I hurt you. You come for me, I come for you.
Toyin Augustus [00:47:40]
And it's not everybody. There's people who want to move away from that. There's people who want to do differently and there's people who don't, and there's people who can't. They're so hurt. And I experienced that.
Toyin Augustus [00:47:55]
I experienced people having no other skills and tools. So going back to what I'm trying to teach and offer in my work is that when you don't have another option that you can see, that you can feel, that's tangible, that's understandable, that you can feel, then you go with what you know. And if harm and dehumanization is what you know, you're going to use that tool as that happened to me, I was put in a position to respond in like, and that's where the healing had to start for me is in recognizing that I didn't want that. I didn't want to take that option. And it was natural and it was, it felt useful.
Toyin Augustus [00:48:38]
And it is useful right in the moment. Long term, though, I don't want that in my body. I don't want vengeance and revenge in my body, and I don't want to become the oppressor. And so that for me is real healing. It's being able to take the harm on me and my body and instead of taking that in and throwing it back out into the world, to be able to either shield from some of it as that's not about me, that's about you can't do that with all of it. So that's one thing also to be able to like understand it, synthesize it and forgive it. And I think third, to be able to take that synthesis and to transform it into how do we heal from this? How do we still love? How do we protect others? And that's hard and it's complicated.
Toyin Augustus [00:49:50]
And I don't have all the answers, but I have that vision. And so I carry that into the work that I do. And again, when people hear it kind of outright, they're like, it's kind of crazy. I don't know why you're asking me to do this. And yet I think for those who have gotten a taste of it, it is liberation. And I want that for us.
Sarah Tacy [00:50:12]
When they get a taste.
Toyin Augustus [00:50:14]
When they get a taste of what it means to be free from wanting vengeance and harmony.
Sarah Tacy [00:50:19]
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I feel like the word freedom, I don't know if you feel this way, but sometimes when I've held resentment, I don't want to hold it. And I'm so aware of the thing of like, nothing is, I want to say nothing is personal because I understand in so many situations where that is not true. But where you could look at a situation and I can rationalize. And you just gave an example of when people fall into harmful patterns because that's all they know.
Sarah Tacy [00:50:52]
And my body is still feeling the hurt, even if my mind can understand the scenario from a like bird's eye perspective. And that's something I'm still learning how to honor and where and how to process. And I, I heard you talk about appropriate Shields. And I think even in just having the vision of the mantra and the value of I will not be the oppressor, that feels really big and so clear to me. And as you were saying, telling the story, I'm also just thinking of the way that you are being what I imagine you want your daughter to see and be in a woman or a human, which is both.
Sarah Tacy [00:51:49]
Finding your boundaries, finding the core of who you are, continuing to go forward to do the work that you're here to do, and choosing your response for yourself, not for them. Yeah, it's really powerful. Thank you for sharing.
Toyin Augustus [00:52:05]
Yeah, it's choosing who, who you want to be in the world, right. If I'm constantly responding and reacting to what other people are doing, I'm not living in my power. I'm not living in my authenticity. I am being pushed and pulled. I am being manipulated.
Toyin Augustus [00:52:23]
There's a whole like, I'm not going to tell the whole like it's, it's not a, it's not a joke. It's like a story. It's like a parable thing. But basically it's like someone does something to hurt you. They do something to hurt you again.
Toyin Augustus [00:52:34]
And then you see them again and you have an opportunity to like hurt them back or ignore them. And it's like, well, why would you do that? And then you do the you do the thing where you're like, you actually offer love, right? You could do nothing, you could harm back. And then this third option that no one thought was part of the option was like to, to offer love back.
Toyin Augustus [00:52:49]
And then a bystander asked, like, why would you do that after they hurt you? You could have just walked away. You could have left it alone or you could have gotten back, right? And it's like, I'm not, I'm not doing it because of who they are. It wasn't about them.
Toyin Augustus [00:53:03]
It's about who I choose to be in the world and we can't control everybody. I can offer my workshops, I can offer strategy, I can offer tools, I can give resources, I can build skills, but you have to make a choice to like actually use them. I can lead you to water, right? You have to choose to drink and I can't do it for you, right? I need to teach you how to fish, right?
Toyin Augustus [00:53:30]
I can't go do all the you know, I give you a fish, you eat for the day, right? That's how it goes. If I teach you to fish, you eat for a lifetime, right? Yeah. I want to. I want to lead you to the water and I want you to choose a drink. I teach you how to fish and I want you to eat and always eat. But I can only really control me. And so at the end of the day, if you choose no, I just got to keep choosing. Yes. For me, not easy. Like, it sounds really good. You know, it's. I know.
Sarah Tacy [00:54:01]
All of these spiritual like High Road things they do. And I so often like when I'm in the pits of something and I think back to like, oh, remember when you taught this? And it felt so like so great to teach it. And then but like when I'm in it in it, I'm like, oh, this is real. This is this is hard. Like this is the work, It's the work. So it's like.
Toyin Augustus [00:54:23]
Community comes in. That is where your community is so important. Who are, who is around you? Who are your mentors? Who are your colleagues? Who is in your inner circle? Because those are the people who will know what's happening with you and will steer you in One Direction or another. So yeah, it's fine to have, like, friends of all walks of life and doing all kinds of things. But when stuff hits the band, like, who is going to be there to say, hey, I know who you are, I love you, I know what you're capable of, and I'm here to support you to be that. Like, that's what we need.
Toyin Augustus [00:55:05]
And in a society that's so individualistic, and I don't need help and it's old me, me. I'm going to go, you know, rise to the top of my own, whatever it looks like crabs in a barrel. If it looks like just being top of the mountain. All of those ideals are crippling. They do not sustain us.
Toyin Augustus [00:55:27]
Where is our community? Because we will be weaker. And when we're weaker, we need support. When I'm stressed, when I'm tired, when the stuff really happens to me, I need people to say that's not what you want to do though, Boo. Like, I know you.
Toyin Augustus [00:55:43]
I know you. You may not be able to see you right now, but I see you, right? And so I just encourage folks to like cultivate a community of people in your inner circle that are going to hold you accountable for being the most beautiful, amazing person that you can be. Because it's not going to be easy. And it wasn't it, it wasn't easy for me either.
Toyin Augustus [00:56:09]
And it still continues to not be easy because I'm like, I'm still talking to myself like toy girl, you're better than that. Or I'm like, God, I hear you. Because in my, in my mind, I'm like, God's like, and I'm like, but I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful that I am plugged in to my community of people who I'm already that kind of person anyway. I'm like a few friends that go deep, then they like friends with everybody.
Toyin Augustus [00:56:40]
I actually know a lot of people just from all of the different work that I do. And yet there's like 4 people that I would call and they know all the things, you know? Yeah, plugged into them and also plugged into the higher power. That is an endless supply of love. Endless supply of love.
Sarah Tacy [00:57:03]
And then I work with says stress is when you have more demands and resources and the work I do with people as often to cultivate or and or recognize the resources that are already here. And for some, the thought of looking for it in nature might be more accessible than God. And those who have access, I know we all have access, but those who are attuned to their spirit team, to God, to their ancestors, it is such a resource. It is a resource when like everything else feels impossible. It's like, I guess this is where the free saving grace comes from.
Sarah Tacy [00:57:45]
It's really powerful and the same man, I was talking to him this morning. I was like, man, I this week I was looping over something that felt really painful and I have people that I love that would be so happy if I would call them. And I just noticed like it is just, it still feels, it's still a hard one for me to do. And so it's so beautiful for me to hear you say that you have four people that you reach out to. I have big network of incredible humans in my life.
Sarah Tacy [00:58:25]
And yet when those moments come, I'm working on it. And it's just really hard for me to pick up the phone. So I'm so glad you have that and I'm so glad that you mentioned that. And I hope I utilize it more. And I'm assuming there are some people listening who that might be a thing for too.
Sarah Tacy [00:58:48]
So thank you and thank you for all of your wisdom. Sometimes I feel like I talk more on the podcast and this time I'm just like, I'm just going to listen to your wisdom. Just keep writing it. I don't really need to reflect much on this because you're like you the giving, the story and the things that we can take from it is so beautiful. I'm so grateful for you taking time and best of luck tomorrow.
Toyin Augustus [00:59:15]
Thank you.
Sarah Tacy [00:59:17]
There's like, if I had another hour, I'd want to be like, well, what like on 2024, maybe you want to run again and but are you 44?
Toyin Augustus [00:59:27]
I am 44. I am 44.
Sarah Tacy [00:59:29]
Something about that number that I've been hearing lately where people like they're like 44 is the year. Just like for some women who I think are like profoundly deep, amazing women, they're like people talk about 40 like it's a big deal, like 44. And so like that you had this like urge, like getting back at it.
Toyin Augustus [00:59:51]
Was probably the healing process actually, Sarah, it was, it was a plugging back in because in my training and I, don't didn't touch too much on this when the trauma hit my body. In 2023 and the way that I pulled back into myself and tapping into God was through my training because that's always been a space where I feel outside of going to church and being in my Bible. It is like running, working out. And so I got on the treadmill, I started lifting weights and I would be literally on the treadmill like God, what like listening to like Lauren Daigle and like Lecrae and other artists who like just really speak to my heart and my soul. And so it was my plug in space.
Toyin Augustus [01:00:41]
And so as I was getting stronger and stronger, that's when I was like, oh, I could just like keep doing this. I could run. Let me look into this. So it's kind of like the competing again was like an offshoot of using this skill, this tool that plugs me back into a spiritual place that I was disconnected from because the work I was doing for this org took me away from that took me away from training. I was at a desk training like my body, like physically and took me away from just even having time to be in my body.
Sarah Tacy [01:01:09]
Like there was many ways that I was giving up parts of me that I needed for my thriving. And so tapping back into that got me back into the training. And so, and I, and I feel super close, right? I'm reaching up and feeling God's closeness.
Sarah Tacy [01:01:26]
It was incredible. I kind of want to end it there. And there's a part of me that wants to say, like my mentor will say that we all have daily fight and flight outlets that our body needs. And when I was looping the other day, I don't particularly. I love sprinting, but I don't love like going for a run.
Sarah Tacy [01:01:49]
And it was the only thing that eventually stopped it. And there was another woman I was really moved by who had a major tragedy in her life and for a couple years was emotionally debilitated by it to the point she was like it would take me two hours to write a check like I just. And when she moved to Vermont to work on a project, she started cross country skiing everyday. And as she was cross country skiing, her brain started working again and her sense of self started coming back. And 1 is like she's in nature, but the other is this rhythmic movement of our body.
Sarah Tacy [01:02:28]
We're like meant to be in our bodies. And then to feel the power like through weightlifting, like I, I'm super into emotional anatomy and how we move our bodies changes our hormones and the way we feel and most likely how spirit enters us. Like the whole like I'm so moved by it. And that this is a part of your past in which you excelled as can, I can imagine, would also be a remembrance of part of who you are. So I'm actually really, really glad that you added that in. And I love that this like, going for a world record started with like, actually I'm doing this to heal.
Toyin Augustus [01:03:11]
Thank you. Oh my God, I'm like low key therapy, how much do I owe you?
Sarah Tacy [01:03:18]
This is such a gift. Yeah. Thank you, Thank you, thank you. Thank you for your whole life that you've lived and all the ways that you've navigated it and all the wisdom that you bring to the world now and for taking an hour to share it with me and the listeners. And I wish you all the luck. But also I'm just like. And I hear that the purpose is also so much bigger. So yay.
Toyin Augustus [01:03:44]
Yeah, just trying to stay in it, receiving this season of abundance that I feel in my body, in my life and doing it all with the purpose of living into the purpose of being, I'd say the best like future ancestor that it can be like we are, we are on a journey and it will end on this earth and what will be our legacy. So thank you to the ancestor just before that did all the things and gave the assignments. I think I understand. I'm still working on it. So I just, I thank God and I'm so glad that you invited me onto this space and this podcast with your listeners. And just, I know, I know that somebody's listening that needs this, you know, even if it's just one person. So I just, I really appreciate that and Michelle for bringing us together.
Toyin Augustus [01:04:45]
Thank you.
Sarah Tacy [01:04:53]
Thank you for tuning in. It's been such a pleasure. If you're looking for added support, I'm offering a program that's totally free called 21 Days of Untapped Support. It's pretty awesome. It's very easy, it's very helpful. You can find it at sarahtacy.com. And if you love this episode, please subscribe. And like, apparently it's wildly useful. So we could just explore what happens when you Scroll down to the bottom subscribe rate, maybe say a thing or two. If you're not feeling it, don't do it. It's totally fine. I look forward to gathering with you again. Thank you so much.