057 - Camille St. Martin: Poetic Journeys of Self-Discovery & Recovery
Welcome, dear listeners. Today I’m excited to have writer, poet, and my high school friend Camille St. Martin with us.
Camille is an advocate for joyous alcohol-free living and the author of the recently released book, Spilled: Poetic Confessions of Drinking, Self-Discovery & Recovery.
Together we discuss Camille’s journey of choosing sobriety. We also reflect on her transition from being a wandering spirit to putting down roots and starting a family.
Tune in to learn more about:
Moving from controlling to reconfiguring parts of ourselves
Relearning how to socialize after choosing sobriety
Healing and reconnecting with poetry through Ayahuasca
Journaling about relapses and triggers
Putting down roots and starting a family
Attracting sober relationships
Connect with Sarah:
Connect with Camille:
Buy Camille’s book
Sign up to win a signed copy!
Mentioned in the episode
Sober Bliss blog
The Sober School blog
Episode Transcript
Sarah Tacy [00:00:05]
Hello welcome, I'm Sarah Tacy and this is Threshold Moments, the podcast where guests and I share stories about the process of updating into truer versions of ourselves. The path is unknown and the pull feels real. Together we share our grief, laughter, love and life saving tools. Join us. Welcome to Threshold Moments.
Sarah Tacy [00:00:39]
Today we have with us Camille St. Martin who is the author of Spilled Poetic Confessions of Drinking, Self Discovery and Recovery. Camille and I went to the same high school, obviously when we were younger and we have not had that many interactions since I've seen her online. She is an amazing hula Hooper. She is a marketing specialist and she is now sharing her story of recovery.
Sarah Tacy [00:01:06]
And in many of the podcasts, I've asked you in season 2 to really listen for conditions. Conditions that help us to move from being activated and spinning out or needing to distract to be able to be activated and stay with it and stay in our body and make it to the other side. And some of these conditions that I've asked you to listen for are pause, win, win situations, relational health, self love, self worth. What I would add in this one is gentle, slow grace. I think what's important in this podcast is that there is an element shared about ayahuasca and psychedelics and the potential for great healing, but how there's also an highlight around.
Sarah Tacy [00:01:55]
Like this wasn't the end game. There was integration. There was falling back into old patterns that even though it shifted something at a deep level, that there was still then the daily work of creating new patterns. And when there would be relapse, that that became an opportunity to look at oneself deeper. To say, now is the time where I want to just spiral and let it go, but to look at oneself deeper and that what was that trigger?
Sarah Tacy [00:02:22]
Why did it happen this time? To notice the grief and shame and to be with it and sit with it. And I would say that Camille's story is a beautiful example of coming back to oneself again and again, of getting lost and then deciding to find one's way again and again and again. I deeply enjoyed our conversation. I think there is so much wisdom in here and a boatload of honesty. And if her work speaks to you again, her book is called Spilled, Poetic Confessions of Drinking, Self Discovery and Recovery.
Sarah Tacy [00:03:10]
Today we have with us Camille St. Martin. She is the author of Spilled and we were also in high school together. We were in the same. What is it? Homeroom. Oh, with that, Yeah. So I'm going to start off with a bio and then we'll get into the conversation. Camille is a writer, poet, performer and advocate for joyous alcohol free living.
Sarah Tacy [00:03:39]
Throughout her words, she aims to give solace, encouragement, and a poetic voice to those facing similar struggles with alcohol. Camille's unique journey and world travels have informed her creative work, providing insight and inspiration for others navigating the terrain of addiction and recovery. With her roots in Colorado, she also channels her expression through healing movement. She resonates strongly with the dragonfly, the symbol of transformation and change. Welcome.
Camille St. Martin [00:04:14]
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Sarah Tacy [00:04:17]
Yeah, so I read your book of poetry, which was, I want to say beautiful, but it's like beautiful and agonizing at the same time because I feel like it was really real.
Camille St. Martin [00:04:37]
Yeah.
Sarah Tacy [00:04:38]
My felt sense of it was that it brings a reader into some of the cycling and the aspects that are sometimes seen as a double bind of like I must, I can't and then any of the shame spirals. But then also the hope and working step by step to move from what is familiar to what is more optimal and truly aligned with your soul and spirit. And so I think it's a really honest read. And I imagine that it would be wildly helpful for someone else going through the path who might feel like they should just be able to do it. Like it should just be easy, or they should just be able to make a decision.
Sarah Tacy [00:05:25]
Like reading your work might help somebody feel like, oh, this person obviously gets it. This person is helping me to see that this is really a journey with so many layers to it.
Camille St. Martin [00:05:43]
Yeah, that those are the kinds of people I was hoping to reach because I was stuck in that for 10 years, probably maybe even 20 years, I don't know, up until just a couple years ago. But I was wanting to quit in my head for so long but not knowing how to change my habits. And this book really like digs into all those layers. And I felt really alone during those 10 years. Like I felt very much in my head.
Camille St. Martin [00:06:13]
I was journaling about it a lot, but I didn't find anyone else that really understood. Like everyone else around me seemed like partying was fine. They're controlling it just fine. They're drinking just fine. But like, I was really just hating myself for not being able to quit.
Camille St. Martin [00:06:31]
And when I finally started reading about other people's stories is when I knew I had to share my own because that started to help me feel not so alone. I was like, oh, my God, like, other people are, like, spinning like this in their heads over and over again and. And like, just kind of stuck in their habits. Once I heard about other people's stories, I was like, I need to share my own story in this way. Like, I feel like sharing in poetry kind of gives it a unique voice. Yeah. And that's just how it came out of me and just how this book wanted to be so.
Sarah Tacy [00:07:02]
You write at one point on page 126, it says I became living proof of shaking realities. And for me that was just like, Oh my God, that's it right there. Like that line in and of itself is it. But under that it says but no, no, no, I've been working too hard shaping this land, shifting what I see.
Camille St. Martin [00:07:21]
Oh, right.
Sarah Tacy [00:07:22]
From where I stand, I can't let it crumble down.
Camille St. Martin [00:07:25]
Yeah, so that one line was really kind of like a pull between my old self that drank and had all these different ways of thinking about it, a different mindset and like knowing that was one reality. And then my new self that was working towards a different mindset around it. And so I was like kind of being pulled apart in that moment, but then choosing, no, I've been working too hard at this, like I am not going to drink with you. And that is the reality that I choose. And so I think this whole journey and process has been like in how I shape my reality and how I see things and how I live my life. And so, yeah, that poem was kind of an offering of what that choice felt like.
Sarah Tacy [00:08:14]
I want to say something on that, but there's just one more line that there. There are a few that I pulled out in particular. And you're really like, I want to read the whole poem, not these lines. What are you doing? So sorry.
Sarah Tacy [00:08:27]
There is another part so and I think it has to do with what you were just saying too, when you're choosing between two perspectives. I have a podcast on moving from familiar to optimal and it's called the tension field. And it's this idea that when you begin to do a new pattern, that the cells in your body all have these receptor sites, and then they have these ligands, which are the molecules of emotion that generally meet them. And they do like the tango together. And they know what they expect.
Sarah Tacy [00:09:01]
And even if it doesn't feel great, they know that they can survive here. It could be a familiar hell or heaven, right? Like either way, it's known. And when you choose to make a new choice at the cellular level, there is a sense of withdrawal. There's a sense of abandonment.
Sarah Tacy [00:09:20]
One is dancing new now and the other doesn't have a partner. And so I tend to think that like at a cellular level, there is a sense of abandonment and confusion and who's going to show up next. And if you keep holding on to that new way, that new idea that eventually something that vibrates the way that you want to vibrate is going to become a match. But in the in between time between making a new decision and having something else that vibrates similar to you and that will dance with you. That will like say I see you, this is not crazy.
Sarah Tacy [00:09:57]
This is a great new way of living is something called what I was calling the tension field that the term I borrowed from cranial sacral therapy that I am probably using slightly imperfectly. And so I think that those were some of the lines that I was drawn to. On another part, on page 87, you were talking about people telling you to take control of it. And it says that somebody would say to you, the trick is to control it. And then you're claiming in this part, the trick is relearning life, repatterning, love, reconfiguring enjoyment so you don't need to control some trickster demon.
Sarah Tacy [00:10:38]
And I love that idea of moving from control to repatterning, reconfiguring, relearning. And I'm wondering what things you've done or experienced within relearning. Like what are you relearning about life or reconfiguring?
Camille St. Martin [00:11:00]
Well, the first thing that pops in my head is this book was written probably over a whole year of kind of transition phase like you're talking about. Like leaving that old thing behind and connecting with something else that you're going to live with for however long. But the whole first like 6 months to a year of quitting drinking, I had to learn how to be really gentle with myself. I had to relearn who I was, like who am I in social situations without that drink in my hand and learn that it's OK to leave a party if I'm not feeling it, if I'm feeling tired, if I, if I don't want to talk to people anymore, I don't have to like keep drinking through that in order to be someone that other people want me to be. Like the person that's socializing and then the person that's getting out there.
Camille St. Martin [00:11:53]
And it took me a couple months to just relearn who I am in society and like who I am and connecting with people and, and just really getting real and authentic and just relearning who I am with without that substance. And so I think recognizing that you're doing that and that that's a process and being really gentle with yourself was really powerful for me. You have to relearn who you are without this substance in hand all the time. And I don't think people realize that. I think people get really hard on themselves and then just avoid parties all together or avoid going out all together and feel like they are abstaining from this life that they just can't partake in anymore because they have to drink with it.
Camille St. Martin [00:12:47]
Instead of relearning who they are in that and being gentle with that and nurturing that so that you can deal with life without that substance.
Sarah Tacy [00:12:58]
I'm sure there are 1,000,000 different ways to do it.
Camille St. Martin [00:13:02]
Yeah.
Sarah Tacy [00:13:02]
It's interesting, I had a friend who became sober and he was asking his mentor what his mentor thought about like, can I just, like, go to the bar with my friends? And his mentor said, well, if you go and hang out at the barbershop long enough, eventually you're going to get your hair cut. What I love about you, what you're saying though, is again, it changes it from control. In my mind, what I'm hearing is it's changing it from control to curiosity, gentleness, and intention. So I think what I'm hearing is that you might still choose to go out with your friends, but then like, what do I do and who am I when I have a seltzer instead?
Camille St. Martin [00:13:48]
Right. Yeah. And so I pretty much shifted my brain, like talking about the repatterning thing or whatever, to be someone that doesn't drink. I don't even think about drinking anymore. And I can talk about some of the ways that if you want to, but yeah.
Camille St. Martin [00:14:03]
Yeah, please. So I started this sober journey, I like to say, because it was like a journey of changing my mind about it in 2020. It was during the pandemic. And all my habits were right in my face. It's not like you're going out to drink.
Camille St. Martin [00:14:24]
It's not like you're. I didn't have any reason to drink except for coping and boredom. And also seeing that that's how I rewarded myself. Like, I would work on my computer all day and it was 5:00 PM. And I'm like, oh, OK, I'll have a glass of wine. And then it turns into two or three. And even though, I mean, I wasn't getting drunk every night, but I was waking up feeling like, not great. I wasn't sleeping well. And so all my patterns were like, right there. And I was like, why am I doing this?
Camille St. Martin [00:14:53]
I woke up in the middle of the night and I was like, this does not bring me joy. That is reason enough. And that was a huge moment for me. And that actually came about because I was reading Marie Kondo. Have you ever read her?
Sarah Tacy [00:15:09]
Yes. And then I think she was on Netflix once too. And I was like, Oh my God, I've never been so turned on by cleaning my house. It's amazing.
Camille St. Martin [00:15:18]
So I know it sounds silly, but I had just gone through this whole process of getting rid of a bunch of things and like physically choosing things that just brought me joy and then releasing all the things that didn't bring me joy. And then it started like spilling out into the rest of my life. And I started to think about my work. And I was like, well, these things don't bring me joy. And then in the middle of the night, I had that same revelation.
Camille St. Martin [00:15:41]
I was like, OK, alcohol does not bring me joy. Like, what is it even doing for me? I'm just doing it habitually without even thinking about it. It's all these unconscious patterns that I'm following but not thinking about that I've been doing for almost 40 years. And so how do I change that?
Camille St. Martin [00:16:00]
I know this is a funny term to say, but I decided I was going to brainwash myself. I was like, I'm going to wake up every single morning and read sober blogs every single morning and educate myself. And so that became part of my morning routine. I had a morning routine before that that and I can talk more about that later, but I incorporated reading sober blogs every single morning and I never thought to do that before. Like, all I had done was Google how to quit drinking.
Camille St. Martin [00:16:31]
And there are not helpful articles on the first page of Google, I'll tell you that. Especially for this, like, weird Gray area drinking where, like, I mean, I never considered myself an addict. I wasn't waking up, like, shaking. I just wanted to quit. But I didn't know how to change my patterns. And so, yeah, once I started reading other people's stories and building up my sober toolbox, they call it, I started really shifting my thinking around it. So it was a big, big part of changing my brain.
Sarah Tacy [00:17:02]
What is in the sober toolbox?
Camille St. Martin [00:17:05]
A lot of things that are in my morning routine, actually a meditation, affirmations, journaling, exercise. But then there's also strategies like bringing a non alcoholic drinks to a party instead of so that you have something to drink and you don't just fall back on drinking what's there or having like your go to drink. You order at a restaurant that like makes you feel like you're fancy and drinking and joining in with people instead of like missing out on something. Like I always order soda water and pineapple juice. I feel like I'm having a drink.
Sarah Tacy [00:17:40]
But yeah, you are.
Camille St. Martin [00:17:42]
Having a drink and like, yeah, so just learning different strategies to change my habits and my mindset around it was huge.
Sarah Tacy [00:17:53]
Do you have any blogs that you would recommend?
Camille St. Martin [00:17:56]
Sober Bliss is one that I've read every single one that she's written. Sober School is really great. Euphoric Alcohol Free is another great one. And then I have a bunch bookmarks and I would just like go through the cycle and I can share with you if you want to share with people.
Sarah Tacy [00:18:14]
Yeah, we'll put it in the show at the.
Camille St. Martin [00:18:15]
Bottom of this, yeah.
Sarah Tacy [00:18:16]
That would be great. I just like sharing all resources like including your book and I love the idea. I mean, I am not sure I've thought about that. Like I feel like any listener, I think most people have habits that we could be blind to that we could be using as vices that we could be using that maybe we're life saving in some ways to help stabilize and distract us from something that would have possibly thrown us over the edge. And when we have that inner pull of it's time to make a change, I think it's good to have various ideas because not everything's going to land the same for everyone.
Sarah Tacy [00:18:56]
And I love the idea of brainwashing yourself. Of course, I have a morning practice with affirmations and what am I grateful for and what am I looking forward to and what are my core desired feelings? And I understand the importance. I think Joe Dispenza has a book called like Changing the Habit of being Yourself. I don't love the title, but it is just all about how we can change our brains and change our lives.
Sarah Tacy [00:19:18]
And it brings in quantum physics as well as like what we might attract in. But yeah, the daily blog reading of Like a life that you might want.
Camille St. Martin [00:19:28]
Yeah, like who do you want to be? Who do you want to shape yourself into being? And yeah, I had done this before when I had been working my marketing job. I was like, I want to be a successful marketing person. So I read marketing blogs every single morning.
Camille St. Martin [00:19:39]
I lived, ate and slept marketing. And that was who I wanted to be at that time. And I kind of like related it to that. I was like, OK, well, I shaped myself into that before. Like how can I shape myself into a sober person? Someone that doesn't want to drink?
Sarah Tacy [00:19:57]
So there's in the media kit, there's a part about. 5 surprising facts and you also spoke to me about this a little bit as well about the role that psychedelics or plant medicine also played in helping you to re pattern the brain. But as we know, like it also hits US on a cellular level and a soul level. There any part of like how did you find that Ave. and what has it been like for you and done for you?
Camille St. Martin [00:20:26]
Yeah, I'd love to share more about that. I think I first discovered it in 2017, like a couple of years before I very first quit drinking. I had never really heard much about it. I was travelling around in Colombia and a couple people had talked to me about their experiences and how it helped with their addictions. Like some guy told me that it helped him quit cigarettes.
Camille St. Martin [00:20:54]
I think someone else told me that it helped them quit drinking. And I was so skeptical. I was like, you're just using a drug to, like, quit another drug. Like, that doesn't count. So yeah, I was really skeptical about it. But then it kept calling to me. I happened to say, at this Airbnb. And he also owned this farm out in the pastures of Columbia, and he hosted ayahuasca retreats there. And so I decided to give it a try and you're.
Sarah Tacy [00:21:25]
Supposed she does well when you're in.
Camille St. Martin [00:21:29]
Colombia, you know, I know.
Sarah Tacy [00:21:31]
Yeah, totally. I would have too.
Camille St. Martin [00:21:34]
Well my other experience was I was staying in a different Airbnb. It was a yoga studio and this girl came back from an ayahuasca retreat and she seemed so shell shocked like, and I just didn't really understand like what an emotional journey that it takes you through. You know, my only experience before was psychedelics had been in kind of like a party situation and never in a healing situation. And so now I understand what that girl was going through. But at the time I was just very like curious, like, oh, what is this all about?
Camille St. Martin [00:22:05]
And so you're supposed to, or they recommend that you have some kind of intention when you're going into it. And I don't remember what my intention was the first time I did it, but I do know that I was puking over the toilet. So for those of you that don't know, you purge a lot, but that purging is like part of the experience. Like it's very cleansing and it's very emotional, like a huge emotional release. And I'm puking and all of a sudden all the experiences of me puking every single morning, like being hungover, like very intensely rushed in.
Camille St. Martin [00:22:48]
And I felt every single morning that I, I was like feeling sick from alcohol and I could, I could feel, I just felt like all that awfulness all at once in my body. And I was like, oh, OK, I guess are we working on this? Are we like going to do the quit Ching Ching thing? And so I laid down and like the medicine worked through me and I felt like it was changing every cell of my body into a non drinker. And actually I didn't drink for a couple months after that, but I'll go into that.
Camille St. Martin [00:23:25]
But I also had a beautiful experience that I was speaking to the universe and the universe was like, I have so much fun being you. And then it said that. And I just felt like all these insecurities melt away. And that kind of complimented this journey to like more self worth and self-confidence that I had been on. And yeah, it was just a beautiful experience.
Camille St. Martin [00:23:50]
And but at also at the same time, like I was saying, like I felt like my all my cells like changing at a cellular level, kind of like how you were just talking about like into that of a non drinker. I laughed and I felt great for a couple months. I didn't drink for a couple months. I was like, OK, and it's kind of the mindset I have now. But this is before I did like all the work on changing my habits and like kind of like more the deeper work of the daily routines and stuff I was talking about.
Camille St. Martin [00:24:21]
So I hadn't really done that deep work yet, but it gave me a couple months where I could see how things could be. Like I knew how good it could be. And so there was a couple months where I felt great. I didn't drink. Then I started dating this guy that was a drug addict and spiraled into like a couple years of being even worse.
Camille St. Martin [00:24:46]
And I also actually had an experience. I got LASIK when I was in Columbia and they tore my cornea and so I could not see out of one eye for a couple years. So that was like perpetuating some more drinking and coping. So like, I hadn't learned how to cope yet. I hadn't really dug into the whys of my drinking after that first ayahuasca experience.
Camille St. Martin [00:25:08]
It was just like I had hoped that there was some magic switch and I was just going to be fixed and let. That's why I sometimes have a hard time like recommending to people like, Oh yeah, this is going to help with your addiction. Because like I feel like there's so many more layers of things that complimented the ayahuasca that that eventually I'm more able to help me cope. But I actually now like looking back, do feel like it changed me on a cellular level then. And then I had to do the work to like catch up with it and be able to be that person that I could see that I could be like that time right after I did the ayahuasca.
Sarah Tayc [00:25:47]
Yeah, that, that's like considered integration.
Camille St. Martin [00:25:52]
The last time I did, it was very powerful too, that LASIK experience that I just talked about, like it was again like a struggle. And then the last surgery that I had, they fixed it kind of, but it was like a couple years of hell that I went through that were like still stuck in my body. And you had talked about this with someone else on a different podcast, like how that energy kind of gets stuck in your body, like, and it's like, oh, yeah, you're healed, but like after surgery, but there's still like that energetic stuff that's stuck in you. And so. And the last time I did ayahuasca, I, I had this like little being came up to my eye and was like, oh, what's going on here?
Camille St. Martin [00:26:34]
And then like all that pain rushed in again. Like it was, it was that same kind of feeling where you experience everything all at once. And all that pain from the past couple years of drinking and coping with like the eye thing, like all that pain came rushing in and then it like dissolved and felt like it was healed. And it was right after that where I just felt so unblocked. That's when I started writing poetry was like pretty much the day after that, when I was 17.
Camille St. Martin [00:27:03]
I wrote poetry all the time. I like, wandered around and I loved to write. And then I went through, you know, my 20s and then got into marketing and kind of got disconnected from myself. And then after the last ayahuasca journey, I felt very connected to who I really wanted to be.
Sarah Tacy [00:27:19]
As you were saying, you were changed on a cellular level and then you started dating somebody who is an addict and you had the eye surgery. If I were to imagine the cells kind of as we were talking before, like they're vibrating one way and they're just like waiting for the molecules of emotion to like, oh, OK, we won't be meeting each other. And like three years later, they finally meet, you know, three years later, it's. Oh yeah, there is that thing and.
Camille St. Martin [00:27:47]
Yeah, yeah.
Sarah Tacy [00:27:48]
It's Maple season right now in Maine. And there's this process that's really symbolic to me that I think is really profound, which is that when everything looks dead outside and people are often feeling like somewhat hopeless in March, when it's often like muddy and cold and we really haven't seen the sun in a long time. And there aren't a ton of signs of life, like if you know what trees to go to, if it's above 40° during the day, this really sweet earthy water will pour out of a tree, but then it has to freeze again at night. And this analogy was really important to me. It has to freeze again in order to get the water the next day.
Sarah Tacy [00:28:32]
And so this is like on the precipice of having spring, of having changed. Like, it's not a Direct Line from hard winter to spring. It's the freeze thaw, freeze thaw. And so when I first noticed the pattern, I was coming out of intense, intense sleep deprivation where I just kind of felt like I lost myself for many years. And, and I would get a night where I'd have like a few hours of sleep and I'd have some ideas of like who I'm going to become and what I'm going to do.
Sarah Tacy [00:29:01]
And then that night would be like multiple things would happen again. And then I would fall way back down to, Oh my gosh, like I'm never going to have my brain back again. I'm never going to have my energy back. And when I could see out in nature that it's actually quite normal to get like a taste of something sweet, a taste of hope. And then we have to go back sometimes to the frozen place, to the place that might not feel as good for some people they love, like the cold and the wintering.
Sarah Tacy [00:29:30]
But like in this analogy, it's like that going back, actually going back even deeper into the freeze, into the alcohol. It's like a remembrance of everything you actually in that part like don't want. There can be healthy containment and healthy retraction, but I would imagine that it would make it that much more powerful when you choose not to drink again, like you did it once, but then that freeze thaw, like the going back to it. I can imagine when you come out on the other side that it's like, I really know I want this. Like now. I really see the polarity and I really know what I want now.
Camille St. Martin [00:30:07]
Yeah. And actually you're reminding me of the whole like first year process kind of quitting drinking. Like since that moment I told you about in 2020, I didn't just quit drinking totally. I had many relapses during that first year and I really dug deep with every relapse and journaled and journaled and was like, was like, why? Like, why did I do that?
Camille St. Martin [00:30:32]
What was the trigger? And then looking at it that way, I was like able to change those habits and, and just be OK with it. But then I felt stronger every time, you know, I and then and then once I did that with like every little habit and trigger, then like then like I come back with even more conviction.
Sarah Tacy [00:30:53]
That's really cool.
Camille St. Martin [00:30:55]
Yeah.
Sarah Tacy [00:30:56]
I'm loving what you said about every time you relapse, that you took it as an opportunity to get to know yourself better and to understand the triggers and to understand, yeah, who you are. Is there anything from the book that you want to read?
Camille St. Martin [00:31:14]
Yeah, I can. I can read the relapse one perfect guilty sips, sitting with champagne by the fire while I desperately hope it Stokes your desire, inspires you to tell me all the things you never do. But it doesn't. Instead, I am once again left in my head, wondering why once again I said goodbye to all my sober time for something so stupid, agonizing over why I did what I did, why I drank what I did. Once again, just for a hope of a taste of you, a clue of what could be, a hint of what to do, but left with nothing except an empty glass, having to start over once again, back to square one day, one all over again.
Camille St. Martin [00:31:57]
And I wonder why that has to be. Those glasses of champagne didn't erase everything I've learned so far. Didn't erase every past moment of sobriety. I saw how it can be, and I can still choose that gracefully. Honestly, the thought of starting over makes me want to drink even more.
Camille St. Martin [00:32:14]
Like a **** it, if we're going to throw it all away, let's just do it. Well, how? What does it even matter anymore? And just like that, a relapse can become an excuse to spiral instead of choosing what I really want to do and that is just not drink and to be the best person I can be. I don't need to deny who I really am now just because I made a mistake.
Camille St. Martin [00:32:33]
Because just like that, a relapse can become a slide if we don't take a moment to see why we took that first one and simply just not do it again. It's that moment between saying a **** it, I don't really care, and actually I really ******* care a lot. That makes us who we are. That defines how far we've come. So then still find ourselves back on day one.
Sarah Tacy [00:32:56]
That's really beautiful. Again, I keep using the word beautiful, but I'm like, I'm I should more like if I were to look for more accurate word is, I could instead describe that. I feel like I could feel my eyes welling up a little bit. The power of the moment, of what sounds like grief and shame and hope and desire and willpower and honesty, all in one moment.
Camille St. Martin [00:33:29]
Yeah, and can be really hard when you're trying to quit and then you do mess up and then it sometimes makes you want to drink more because you have so much shame around it. Instead of like I started to call it learning moments. It's now been like 2 years for me. But like the first year I was like counting my day one. It was like day one, day 2, day three, day four.
Camille St. Martin [00:33:53]
And like, and then you drink and you mess up and like you that can make you feel even worse and like want to drink even more instead of like looking like, why did I do that? And like, what changes can I make in my life to change that? So yeah, this poem is kind of like that moment when I was stepping away from that.
Sarah Tacy [00:34:17]
When I read another of the five surprising facts, I want to preface what I'm about to say first by saying like, I really hear the courage and fearlessness that has been an element throughout your life. And so number 5 is a common theme in Camille's life is to not be held back by fear and to embrace the unknown. And so it talks about at 17, you hitchhiked across the US in the 30s, you sold off everything you own to live abroad. And then maybe I would like skip up to #3 where it's when you decided to write your book that you left marketing and moved into a converted van. A drunk driver hit your van. We could talk about that if you want. I'm so sorry. And I imagine that then there's like a recreation again. And then the next step in part 5 is being here and bearing your heart. And so I do hear the courage.
Sarah Tacy [00:35:25]
And I also hear in some of those parts, my teacher will say that we all of us have different amounts of like fight, flight, sometimes freeze as well, but like healthy fight or flight that we could have for everyday. And so for some people, it's like how much they need or want to travel or going on a run. And the pandemic really took down a lot of that. And so I can hear in these things how like your ability to like leave places and start something new and go to something new, like the courage and that, but also the movement in that, like some flight in that. And what's so interesting about this, like space that you're in now is that bearing your heart is really the opposite of flight.
Sarah Tacy [00:36:18]
And I'm not saying that flight is bad. I'm saying, like, we all have it and it's useful, but to come into a place in your life where you are now bearing your heart. And in the preface of your book, you write, I am not anonymous. This is not a secret. I am not hiding.
Sarah Tacy [00:36:36]
Here is my heart. And I'm going to add the layer that you're married, that you're about to have a baby and that these things are very like earthy, which doesn't mean that, again, that we leave our need to travel and like see the world. But just for me, it seems really interesting that as you have been changing your minds and your patterning, that there is this thing that you're doing that is like very grounded and vulnerable and here and present.
Camille St. Martin [00:37:09]
Yeah, that's a really good insight. My dream for a long time was to travel the world, and I was going to travel forever and see every country and never have any roots. And I just changed. I was like, I want that. I want roots and I want to be grounded and I want a family.
Camille St. Martin [00:37:30]
And yeah, it was a huge shift for me. And yeah, it almost does feel more vulnerable and more present. Like, yes, I'm like here and I'm not like running away or moving locations whenever things go wrong. It's just here and we're going to deal with it and work through whatever comes up and make life beautiful so.
Sarah Tacy [00:37:56]
That makes me want to ask the question of like, what do you do or how do you experience joy because there's something about the line where it was reconfiguring enjoyment. But before I ask that question, being with like wanting to have a family and staying here and like being with what arises, which to me is also part of an ayahuasca journey, is like really having to be there with everything that arises.
Camille St. Martin [00:38:23]
Yeah, I feel like that's also about to happen to me in birth too.
Sarah Tacy [00:38:26]
You, we'll have you on again next year. Threshold moments one year postpartum. It's a, it's a threshold and it's, it's so powerful and like so incredible that you have been developing these skills to be present when activation happens to like be present and look at yourself and ask questions in journal and write poetry. And I imagine that like when you're hula hooping too. I just don't have to imagine that it's like therapy in its own way, even if it's, I don't know if it's just for enjoyment, but like going on here right now, I was undulating. If you could see me like. I don't know how to hula hoop and I'm pretending that I have a hula hoop on and.
Camille St. Martin [00:39:13]
Yeah, I love flow. Like really gets you in the moment and allows you to be.
Sarah Tacy [00:39:17]
Because all of these skills that you're doing for yourself are such a beautiful gift for the child that you are bringing into this world. Because when you learn how to cope, it's less likely that your child's going to grow into the pattern that it's their job to Co regulate the parents, which is not an unusual pattern. And so, so beautiful that you're developing these skills. And I don't think that any parent has perfected them. So I don't want to put any like perfection energy onto it.
Sarah Tacy [00:39:54]
But I'm, I just want to say that it's, it's a gift. Like everything that you do for self love for yourself is such, in my opinion, a gift for your child. And I would also ask you. You're married? Yeah.
Camille St. Martin [00:40:07]
Yeah, we did a hand fasting ceremony.
Sarah Tacy [00:40:10]
I love it in your own way. Yeah, do it in your own way. I love it. So the question is left about like, I actually don't care if it's marriage or hand fasting or whatever form. The question was more around as you begin to build coping skills, move into self worth, self love, self reflection, taking responsibility for yourself, how has that shifted in the way that you are in partnership with others?
Camille St. Martin [00:40:46]
I feel like it makes me more committed. It's more about the partnership and not just about me. I do feel like when I was drinking a lot, I was in a more selfish space. And if things weren't working out, then you just leave like you're not doing any work. And yeah, I think doing all this work on myself has allowed me to see that, you know, we can also do work within our partnership and grow with each other. It's helped me to feel a lot more committed. And. But yeah, that's a really good question. I never even really thought about that before.
Sarah Tacy [00:41:26]
Was thinking about the relationship that you said you were in post your first ayahuasca ceremony. And I imagine that the person you're in a relationship with now is not that person. OK, all right. And so to me, it just, it also seemed like this clear thing of like, as you work on yourself, like as you like move more and more into blueprint of yourself, that you're more likely to be in a partnership that if you respect yourself more than that person's also going to respect you more. It's like mandatory and vice versa. There's just like more respect all around, right? That was kind of what I was assuming. And so I wanted to see what.
Camille St. Martin [00:42:04]
You're like, like attracted, I think. What exactly that I need and deserve and want. I always had a problem when my partners drank, like, then, then it was just like an excuse to drink. And like, that's what we did together. And he doesn't drink and he's super supportive. And me not drinking and writing this book and yeah, that's everything that I wanted.
Sarah Tacy [00:42:25]
Yay, congratulations. I never really talk about this, but my husband and I don't really drink either. And I wouldn't say that it was a big journey, just more for me, a realization at some point where I'm like, oh, I just want to feel good, like have energy. And so almost at the same point and really like right before we met each other, we both just kind of stopped. And it's may be different in that if we were at, like, a fancy restaurant who made really good drinks, like, maybe.
Sarah Tacy [00:43:01]
But I like, really love Pellegrino with a, like A twist of lime. And I really like feeling hydrated. And I think you're right. Like, I haven't really given much credence to the importance of steeping on the same page. I think I always just figured I would do what I wanted to do with that.
Sarah Tacy [00:43:22]
But I think that you're right that it's actually probably wildly helpful to have a partner who's just also like, yeah, don't need that, don't want that and just.
Camille St. Martin [00:43:33]
Yeah, so that last time that I did Ayawaska that I was talking about, I went down to Mexico and I ended up staying there for three months. I was only supposed to go down there for two weeks. And that was the first time I had travelled sober and I attracted so many people to me that were sober. I just like found myself surrounded by sober people and all my friends were sober down there. And then when I came back here, all the people that I was hanging out with were sober.
Camille St. Martin [00:44:01]
Like I didn't even need to intentionally build a community. Like I just found that once I was talking about it, I was attracting it to me. And I felt like when I first quit drinking, I wasn't really talking about it. It was almost like, like I felt ashamed or like people would think I had a problem or I didn't know how to explain it. Like, oh, why aren't you having a drink?
Camille St. Martin [00:44:26]
And you have to, like, come up with an answer. But like, once I started having more conviction about it and talking about it, then I started connecting with people that didn't drink and then found myself surrounded by sober people. So yeah, I think you, once you're putting the energy out there, you attract the right people.
Sarah Tacy [00:44:43]
I don't have the exact right words for what the real process is, but the gist of it is you have, it's called unconscious incompetence, which just means like there is a pattern that you don't like and you're not really even aware that it's there. Then you have conscious incompetence where it's like, I don't love the word incompetence here, but it would be like, here's a pattern. I don't like it. And it could be that back and forth with like, I don't do it. Then I do it and I don't. And it's like that. And then there's conscious competence where it's like you're trying, you're like, OK, I don't drink and I will look at the blogs every single day. It's a little bit like I'm sticking to it. It's worked for a long time. I might have a fall back here, but I know I'm going to keep going forward.
Sarah Tacy [00:45:22]
And you're in this place. And then when you hit the unconscious confidence, I feel like that's the stage that you're talking about where it's like, I wasn't even trying to attract somebody who didn't drink. I wasn't trying to have this community. It's just, you know, who you've become and what you're attracting. And it becomes like the unconscious confidence.
Camille St. Martin [00:45:43]
Yeah, it's. More who you are like it's more your personality.
Sarah Tacy [00:45:48]
Yeah, I also have the lingering question, like, what brings you joy these days?
Camille St. Martin [00:45:55]
I love to dance and I've we've been going to ecstatic dance once a week. Well, I love that my partner's actually open to going. Like that's not normally something he would do, but he goes with me because he knows I love it so much and he I love that he's open to new experiences. It's been very joyous to dance with my baby inside of me. And like, I hope that I am part some of that joy to him and dancing.
Camille St. Martin [00:46:22]
And I love seeing all the little kids that go there every week too. And it's just, yeah, incorporating dance into my pregnancy has been really important to me to make sure that I still do that and, and find joy in that. So that has been very joyous to me.
Sarah Tacy [00:46:38]
Thank you. Dancing brings me joy too. I love it. And I love like, I can just think, dancing with your baby inside and then I can say for myself, like, dancing with them outside. And I always feel like when I sway, their body is like picking up on the rhythm. And yeah, now we have kitchen dance parties and the girls are older.
Camille St. Martin [00:46:59]
Oh, fine.
Sarah Tacy [00:47:02]
Would you like to close us out with a poem?
Camille St. Martin [00:47:09]
I have one that's my favorite, but then I have another one that popped up from our conversation. This is a poem for that somebody. It's hard facing who you used to be and people think they know you. That crazy wild girl drunk me. I don't ever want to see her again.
Camille St. Martin [00:47:31]
Even if people like that version, it's not real me. So my questions are, how do I get over my inhibitions slowly? How do I handle these emotions gently? How do I find my sense of humor again? Patiently.
Camille St. Martin [00:47:56]
That girl's humor was barbed anyways. Snarky, sarcastic and mean. No wonder people avoided me. I am sorry to the people I unintentionally hurt who didn't deserve the sharp slice of a poisoned tongue. I'm sure it's stung.
Camille St. Martin [00:48:09]
I was so mean. Why I want to tell that girl it's OK to cry. You are loved. You are one with the universe, the stars and the moon. Soon, soon you will see.
Camille St. Martin [00:48:22]
In the meantime, please stop killing me because we are on a slow death March with every liquor store stop backed up bottles down the hall. It's all going to be OK. Please just listen to me. Stop trying to be someone you're not. You are loving, kind, sensitive, not this razor tongue demon that shoots, digs and barbs.
Camille St. Martin [00:48:40]
How far down this path do we need to go? Please don't die with this disease. Please settle into your heart instead of letting every upset restart a drunken spiral of denial, a pile of disasters you've started to call life. I need you to fight. You're better than that. You are love. You are light.
Sarah Tacy [00:49:03]
I love reading your book, but I really love when you read your book.
Camille St. Martin [00:49:08]
That one's been standing out to me a lot lately because I was just reading a little synopsis, actually, of that first ayahuasca experience that I was telling you about, and I hadn't even remembered writing it. And in reading it, I was looking at myself in the past and like looking at myself with a lot of compassion, and I wasn't hating myself anymore. I was seeing myself as someone that needed care and healing and love. And so I feel like a lot of this book is about that, like looking at that person I was in the past and giving them that encouragement and care and love that I really needed then. So and then, yeah, this one popped up to me when we were talking because it's kind of about healing that unseen energy and forgiving yourself.
Camille St. Martin [00:50:00]
It's called healing. What you can't remember, Hell is what you can't remember. Drunken fights filed away, Who you were that day, that time is lost, forever gone. But do the shameful things we do drunk stay stuck in our soul, A field of unseen energy waiting to be healed. Actions that were never acknowledged or dealt with, still felt in movements and words, vibrations and tones that get stronger alone. But it's time to move on, acknowledge, deal, heal, release who you were that day, that time I see you, I hear you, I hold you. Now it's time to say goodbye to that time I forgive you that's.
Sarah Tacy [00:50:53]
A great place to close the I forgive you. Thank you so much for coming on today. If someone wanted to, I think at the beginning we were saying like this is so great for somebody going through this journey, being on this journey. I also feel like it's a great read for anybody who is like a companion of somebody going through this journey because I think that it sheds light on the perspective. And you just mentioned going back to the one who is drinking and going back to her with compassion, which is very much like a thing that we do in somatic healing is to go back on the timeline and bring your present adult self to offer layers of support that that one who was in the trauma, the layers that they didn't have that.
Sarah Tacy [00:51:41]
And so I think that this book can be a layer of support for not only those on the journey or maybe just like going out of the journey, but possibly even just people who are in relationship with people on that journey.
Camille St. Martin [00:51:56]
Yeah, I've gotten a lot of feedback from people that have had family members going through this and said that the book was really helpful. And then I've also gotten some feedback from people that don't necessarily struggle with drinking, but really appreciated reading someone's journey of giving themselves permission to live well and to look at themselves with compassion on a day-to-day basis. So.
Sarah Tacy [00:52:22]
I love that. Yeah. I think that we can all have some reminders. When you said like there was a part where you said like gently, slowly. And I think that anyone could read this and take those elements of compassion and reflection and the process of what it's like to ever change pattern that we want to change, no matter what that pattern is.
Camille St. Martin [00:52:47]
Yeah.
Sarah Tacy [00:52:49]
Thank you so much. So we'll, we'll have your website on there. We'll have the blogs that you mentioned there. Any other thing that you'd want people to know before we sign off?
Camille St. Martin [00:53:00]
You can get the book on Amazon right now. The full title is Spilled Poetic Confessions of Drinking, Self Discovery and Recovery by Camille St. Martin. And then I also have a area on my website where you can sign up to win a signed copy.
Sarah Tacy [00:53:13]
Awesome. Well, thank you so much.
Camille St. Martin [00:53:16]
Thank You.
Sarah Tacy [00:53:17]
For being here for this story.
Sarah Tacy [00:53:32]
Thank you for tuning in. It's been such a pleasure. If you're looking for added support, I'm offering a program that's totally free called 21 Days of Untapped Support. It's pretty awesome. It's very easy. It's very helpful. You can find it at sarahtacy.com. And if you love this episode, please subscribe. And like, apparently it's wildly useful. So we could just explore what happens when you Scroll down to the bottom subscribe rate, maybe say a thing or two. If you're not feeling it, don't do it. It's totally fine. I look forward to gathering with you again. Thank you so much.