060 - Kate Northrup: From Scarcity to Plenty
Today I welcome my good friend Kate Northrup back to Threshold Moments to talk about how she transformed her relationship to money.
Kate is an acclaimed entrepreneur, bestselling author, and mother. She’s written two books — Money: A Love Story and Do Less — and she teaches folks, just like you, how to heal your relationship with money, time, and work.
In this conversation, Kate guides us through her journey from panicked about scarcity to relaxed in abundance, and she shares how we can support our nervous systems to feel safe around money.
Tune in for so much generous support from Kate, then click here to join us in the free 3-day workshop Wide Receiver from April 23-25.
Sign up for Relaxed Money and get two free one-on-ones with Sarah.
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Buy Kate’s books, Do Less & Money: A Love Story
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Mentioned in the Episode
Episode Transcript
Sarah Tacy [00:00:05]
Hello welcome, I'm Sarah Tacy and this is Threshold Moments, the podcast where guests and I share stories about the process of updating into truer versions of ourselves. The path is unknown and the pull feels real. Together we share our grief, laughter, love and life saving tools. Join us. Hello, welcome to Threshold Moments.
Sarah Tacy [00:00:40]
I'm very excited for you to be here with my good friend Kate Northrup. This is the first time I've had a returning guest. Kate helps ambitious people work less while having less stress and creating more abundance. Her motto is make a life not just a living. Kate helps people use a data infused, soul powered, nature aligned business building framework to create planning practices and systems that honor not only their schedule and bottom line, but also their dreams, goals, desires, energy, the cosmos, the planet and of course their bodies.
Sarah Tacy [00:01:16]
Kate is a Mama, a wife, a best selling author of Money, a Love Story and her second book Do Less. Kate has a podcast called Plenty and she is the founder and lead guide of Relaxed Money, which has its stores opening for a new cohort this April through the beginning of May. This conversation is so great. I had so many questions I wanted to ask her and we ended up going back and forth talking more about nervous system. And I think this is super useful because the threshold we're talking about today is the threshold from a feeling of scarcity to a feeling of plenty.
Sarah Tacy [00:01:58]
And we talk about the double bind of I must make more, I can't make more, or I must relax in order to manifest more money. I can't relax. I had these bills that are really real and beginning to open up to a sacred third, which doesn't even mean coming to a clear answer, but beginning to put into practice ways that we can start to feel sensations of safety and resonance within our body in current time before the outside world says it's possible. I wanted to also just share that Tokopa Turner and her book Belonging on page 42 has this really beautiful definition or quote unplenty, and it says worth is really another way of saying plenty. It is the resting state of abundance, and I love that.
Sarah Tacy [00:02:56]
We're talking about abundance and I think throughout the podcast you'll hear these elements of self worth being tied into abundance and plenty. On the topic of abundance worth plenty, I wanted to say how much I really love both in this conversation and in the program Relax Money. How much of that comes back to us working with our bodies and working with our nervous system? So for the last year I have been working with Relaxed Money. Every month I offer a nervous system practice for the group and in September when I was asked if I wanted to be an affiliate, I just noticed I had too much going on in my personal life and my nervous system to be able to share what I was so loving watching and what I was watching.
Sarah Tacy [00:03:53]
What I was seeing, and I've been here for a year, is people having these revelations, both of really practical ways to organize finances as well as mindset shifts, and then working with the body so that we're not trying to override something that feels scary or something that feels true to us, that we get to work with the body and with our patterning. So I've heard people who will do nervous system regulation work and then do taxes and then nervous system regulation work. And I've heard of people who, as they change their estate, they begin to see nuance, more nuance, options and choices that they can make that they couldn't see before. So again, I'm loving what I'm hearing from the people in this program. I'm noticing that I myself have made changes in my own finances which have been incredible and so I said heck yeah to being an affiliate partner for this time around.
Sarah Tacy [00:04:58]
So if you want more, there's a free three day training that she offers called wide receiver. I find that she makes things so easy to integrate and take in and I'll leave a link for that. And if you choose from that to buy the program itself, then I will offer you a free one-on-one with me. So without further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Kate Northrop. Welcome to Threshold Moments.
Sarah Tacy [00:05:37]
Today we have with us Kate Northrop. This is the first time I've had someone on for the second time.
Kate Northrup [00:05:45]
So honored. Mm. Hmm.
Sarah Tacy [00:05:49]
And it's not because there are a shortage of amazing people to talk to, but I feel like since we last talked, so much has happened. And I also there's a launch of a new program that I want to talk about. And I feel like this threshold that we would talk about would be about the threshold between scarcity and plenty. And I know you've told the story probably a number of times of the time in your life where you began to switch your mindset from scarcity from like, I am responsible for creating content that will be supportive to my family, supportive to all my employees. I am a mom.
Sarah Tacy [00:06:28]
I am a wife. And like feeling the stacking and layering and possibly looking for an external number to that could make you feel safe. And I'm wondering if you could speak to us about your process of shifting from the inside of you before waiting for the outside. We're just really tough.
Kate Northrup [00:06:49]
Totally. No, I mean, this is great. This is all that matters. So what happened was I left Maine sort of unexpectedly. And when we got to Florida in early 2021, my husband Mike became incredibly I'll very fast with a repeat of an illness that he had been struggling with for the past, you know, 2 1/2 almost three years called topical steroid withdrawal, TSW or and also steroid withdrawal.
Kate Northrup [00:07:16]
It's also called Redman syndrome, so that anybody has that or wants to look it up. You can check that out. It's awful. And it's somewhat mysterious because it's not like you go to the doctor and there's a diagnosis and there's a clear protocol. Like when you go to the doctor and you have this, they suggest that they're going to prescribe steroids.
Kate Northrup [00:07:33]
And it is infuriating. So it's like the toxic loop of our medical system that was not helping us. And so there we were. We had moved to Miami somewhat unexpectedly to help Mike heal because of the weather and the humidity. And it was for her skin. And we were paying for two lives. We had this full life in Maine, and then now we had another extra life in Miami, one of the most expensive cities in the country. And suddenly like private school tuition and, and my husband was really sick and I had a 2 1/2 year old, almost 3 year old and A5 four year old somewhere in there. And then also our team. And you know, I was like primary parent, primary breadwinner leading this company.
Kate Northrup [00:08:16]
And it just felt like too much. And I was in a loop. And that loop that you mentioned, Sarah, was, OK, if Mike could just get better and make money, everything would be fixed. So we had a session with our therapist, David, who's very thematically tuned in. And he also does a lot of internal family systems parts work.
Kate Northrup [00:08:38]
And David was like, OK, Kate, go inside and close your eyes and imagine that Mike has walked in the door. And he said, babe, I just made $10 million. So now you do not need to work. In fact, we could close the business like whatever you want. And so I had expected a particular response to that information.
Kate Northrup [00:09:00]
But the response that I received from inside myself was shocking, which is that I instantly felt kind of flat lined and depressed and dead inside. And I was disturbed by that because what it helped me to realize was that I had been operating using stress and pressure as a stimulant. And what I now know about the nervous system that I was learning at the time was that basically my nervous system was developed in an environment where it received the message what it means to be alive is to feel a constant level of stress and pressure, like being alive means stress and pressure. And so I was finding any opportunity to manufacture stress and pressure, and I didn't even know I was doing it. And I was in that moment projecting into this fantasy future that I thought would fix everything and realizing that actually my body was addicted to the stress and the pressure.
Kate Northrup [00:10:12]
So I'm going to stop there. And I want to know from you what other layers are going on there in the nervous system. And then I'll tell you what I did about it, because what I did about it is not make more money. And also, Mike didn't overnight make 10 million. That's not what fixed it.
Sarah Tacy [00:10:29]
I don't see parts of your story where you're like, oh, there's a gap. She's totally missing this piece of the story. I'm hearing it. I'm like, wow, you hear that so clearly. I imagine if I heard, like, someone's going to make $10 million, I imagine that I would feel relaxed, and I'm going to share this.
Sarah Tacy [00:10:47]
I'm not sure I've shared this out loud before. When I started dating Steve, I always was looking at like, do I have any hidden agendas? Is it attractive to me that he someday is going to be a dentist? And another part that actually showed up with Like I was scared ******** that if he became a dentist and was out earning me then my work wouldn't matter and that I wouldn't be able to do my work. I'm sorry, I totally just switched from you to me so that I wouldn't be able to do my work because if the amount of money I made with it didn't make a difference to our family's well-being, then my work no longer mattered.
Sarah Tacy [00:11:27]
So I had an over coupling of the amount I make and my worth. And when I first heard your story, I also wondered if there was an over coupling of your worth and how much you make or produce or how successful you are.
Kate Northrup [00:11:48]
That is so a missing piece and that's been coming up in our relaxed money coaching sessions and it's been coming up everywhere. And so it's so interesting that it's coming up again is because it's something that I'm so aware of is happening with other people. And I don't think I saw the thread that it was happening in this scenario. So in addition to, you know, kind of the nervous system soup that my body developed in, not only was it stress and pressure, you know, financially, but just like general stress and pressure, it was also a lot of stress and pressure around performance, specifically academic performance. And so I think that over coupling of our inherent worth with our earnings or with our performance or with our achievement is something to really dial into.
Kate Northrup [00:12:42]
And it's then like it's system pattern. So thank you for saying that. I think that's really profound. And I knew there was going to be an added player. So then I had this other coach because it takes a village. And I was in this, like, massive. It felt like a crazy financial contraction. I was like, I'm paying for these two lives. And my husband said, like, contraction, contraction, contraction. It felt so squeezy.
Kate Northrup [00:13:07]
But I had shared with her about the, like, flatlining with imagining that Mike had brought home, you know, a whole bunch of money. She suggested an exercise that I do, like, an experiment, and we came up with it together. And she said, OK, so what's an amount of money that you would feel comfortable either going into your savings or going into the whole, like going into debt or a credit line or whatever that you just know because of past experience and you know, your capability as a business owner that you could just make back if you needed to relatively quickly. And I was like, OK, I know that number. So I decided that I would either get to that amount of money of overspending, like more than our income, or 90 days.
Kate Northrup [00:13:44]
So one or the other, whichever I hit first, 90 days or this amount of money in the hole. And until that time, I was going to just practice what it would be like to relax, even though I didn't have good evidence that it was a good time to do so. And by relax, what that meant for me was to not mount like a new marketing campaign to come up with more income because that's was always my old behavior. It was like, let me ramp up and get something going to create money, which I can totally do, and many entrepreneurs know how to do that. But it was from an originating point of stress and pressure as opposed to from a place of like pleasure and joy and surrender and trust.
Kate Northrup [00:14:25]
So I was like, OK, I'm not going to do that behavior. You know, I did a lot of like watching TV in the middle of the day and laying in bed crying. I'd so much emotion that needed to be felt. So when I say relaxation, it wasn't really a joyful time. I'll be perfectly honest.
Kate Northrup [00:14:40]
It was like a really sad time, and I would be interested to hear about that. What ended up happening in the 3D reality is that we didn't go into the hole at all. We actually hit all of our financial goals. And I didn't have to like, ramp up to do something extra. I just kept doing the things we had already agreed to do, you know, and delivering on what we had already decided to offer.
Kate Northrup [00:15:02]
And we made enough money. And it was a freaking revelation of like, wait a second, I didn't have to ramp up in order for this to happen. I didn't have to clinch a certain amount for there to be abundance. The abundance was there when I relaxed. And then within that 90 days, Mike fell off his bike and broke his knee.
Kate Northrup [00:15:26]
So then he couldn't walk also. And that was just like, OK, great. So the stakes are now higher. You going to relax now? And I was like, yes. Then 18 months later, something happened behind the scenes in my company where a lot of our team did. The goddess basically came in and had heard a request to that I had had and she just facilitated it happening in a way that felt really hard. So we had massive team changes going on. We were working with like basically it was like me and Mike and one other part time person. We were going to do this launch of our first round of relaxed money and a week before we were starting promotion, Mike got hit by a car while he was riding his bike and had a massive traumatic fracture to the same knee he had broken 18 months before. So he had to have a week in the hospital, 2 surgeries and he was on crutches for three months. Then again, it was like. So, you going to relax now? And I was like, yes, yes, I am. And so we delayed the launch because, you know, our family was kind of like hanging on by a thread and it wasn't like we had all this extra where it was like, oh, great, I can just delay this launch, you know, infinitely and, and we'll be fine. Like my company is the way that my family eats and that our team gets paid. There isn't really Plan B in our lives.
Kate Northrup [00:16:57]
Like this is the plan that relaxation like required me to tap into something so much bigger then spreadsheets and like emergency funds and like really to tap into source with a capital S And then in the end of that launch of relaxed money, the first time out of the gate was our biggest launch we've ever had. It blew my mind. It went so well and it was so easy and inflow. I was just like checking behind my computer like what is happening and I the only thing I can say is money really responds to relaxation.
Sarah Tacy [00:17:39]
I can imagine so many listeners go. My experience is that money responds to hustle. And So what I imagine is that when you slow down, like we switch the word to slow down instead of relaxed.
Kate Northrup [00:17:53]
Love it.
Sarah Tacy [00:17:55]
Many people feel like they're going to die. I felt that way for like, if I go this slow, will I survive? Because the way I found success in the past was to be tenacious was to just keep going. And there's something probably like you said, that my system gets addicted. Like I can feel it during the day.
Sarah Tacy [00:18:16]
If I'm, if I get into the mode of if I check up all these to do's, then I can relax. Like, I can still get into that mode and I can feel it. And so to say that there's a possibility of another way is a great leap that you don't necessarily have a ton of proof. And the universe keeps giving you examples of actually, it's less safe than you think. And if I were to describe what I think happens in the nervous system is that when we move from familiar to optimal said this a few times on the podcast.
Sarah Tacy [00:18:53]
So for some listeners, you've heard this before, that all of our cells have receptor cells and they're all waiting for these ligands to make a connection and they.
Kate Northrup [00:19:03]
What are they called?
Sarah Tacy [00:19:04]
Ligands.
Kate Northrup [00:19:05]
Ligands just I'm just taking notes, yeah.
Sarah Tacy [00:19:08]
This is the work of Candace perk.
Kate Northrup [00:19:09]
She's so amazing.
Sarah Tacy [00:19:11]
She's fascinating. Her work is fascinating. So the images I get from this is like you learn how to salsa together, like you learn a specific dance that these two do together. And when on a cellular level, you decide to change. Now the emotional peptide, the Ligen has nothing to connect to.
Sarah Tacy [00:19:29]
And it feels like abandonment, right? Like you're left dancing on the dance floor by yourself. And there's no one to say like, oh, this is the thing that generally makes you feel good. This is the connection that makes you feel good. And so there has to be a borrowing the term the tension field from biodynamic cranial sacral therapy, and I may slightly be misusing it, but this idea of hanging out in a field of a new possibility before a matching ligand meets you so.
Kate Northrup [00:19:57]
Literally like being the first person on the dance floor at a wedding where you just have to like awkwardly just be there until the one person joins and then the two people and then suddenly it's a dance party but it is uncomfortable.
Sarah Tacy [00:20:13]
And so it takes resourcing, right? So the definition of stress that I heard from Jerry Molitor is that stress is when we have more demands than resources. Then when you're going through something and you know you're going into a tension field, you know that you're trying to do a new pattern, then you're going to want to say, like, what resources do I have? So this time Mike is out, you have more demands with your kids. And you could see that you have more demands with work, but you're now looking at like, well, I have this therapist.
Sarah Tacy [00:20:41]
I am doing this nervous system work. I am utilizing these things to help me at a time where I feel like I might die if I try this new pattern. Because when people talk about like, I changed on a cellular level.
Kate Northrup [00:20:55]
You did. I did. You did you.
Sarah Tacy [00:20:58]
Literally, your cells shifted and then you're waiting for your chemistry. You're going through a withdrawal and you're waiting chemistry to meet it.
Kate Northrup [00:21:08]
That is so true. Yeah. I'm just over here like taking copious notes because that's exactly what it felt like. And when you said the resourcing piece, So one of my main regulation practices and practices of resourcing is communing with nature. And at the time, I was living on the 41st floor of a high rise.
Kate Northrup [00:21:31]
And so I didn't feel like amongst a lot of other tall buildings in, like, streets where there was a lot of trash and coming from a fairly woodsy area in Maine, like, it just felt like, sort of an assault on my system. And when I would do, like, a grounding meditation, you know, it's like, drop the grounding cord. And I could just sort of, like, feel my grounding cord, like, dangling around the 20th floor, like, it couldn't make it all the way down. So what I would do, even if I only had 10 minutes, I would go downstairs, which took forever, in the elevator, and I would walk out to the waterfront. Which had this.
Kate Northrup [00:22:08]
Kind of like, you know, sidewalk along it and I would just sit on the water wall thing and just look at the ocean and allow my body to receive the energy of the ocean. And I know that that's probably for some people, they're like, how do you do that? And for me, it's a little hard to describe, so maybe you have better language for it, but it's literally just kind of like a tuning my energy to the ocean. It's like I'm feeling the Ocean's frequency and then just like letting it come into my body.
Sarah Tacy [00:22:41]
It reminds me a little bit of the exercise we did with your mastermind when we asked the outside person in a partnership to resource from something greater than themselves, so that when you're a mother or you're a business person, if you're pulling from your own well all the time, that it could feel like too much. So we practiced. We were also looking out at the ocean. Then could we look at the ocean and could we start to attune to the ocean and imagine her energy as this wellspring as we sit and listen to this person's story? Not to heal them, not to.
Sarah Tacy [00:23:13]
Just like could we be resourced from another place instead of thinking that we're the battery for somebody else? And another thing that might be helpful for listeners is that oftentimes when we look out to nature, what happens is that our head moves back in space. So if you imagine like the backside of your ears, not the behind part, but the furthest back, that starts to move back and our gaze starts to go more peripheral. And when that happens, our breath pattern changes. It becomes more spreads throughout the entire body, the front back up, down, and the nervous system then thinks it's safe.
Sarah Tacy [00:23:52]
Right when we're like fleeing something, we get like more directed. Our head goes forward, and when we look at the setting sun, when we look at a mountain range, our head shifts back, our breath pattern changes without trying to, and we start to attune to the pace of nature because our body is nature, so our body gets in tune with itself.
Kate Northrup [00:24:16]
Eyes makes me want to cry. Yeah. So that's what I did. I mean, that's the most practical thing I can say I would do. I would just. And then I would also just ask the ocean if she had anything to tell me, and then I would listen. And I don't really remember exactly like what the messages were, but they were often marketing questions. I could simply go sort of ask Mother Nature what she thought I should do about, like, our various marketing strategies. And it was very clarifying. So that's kind of how I shifted on a cellular level the very way you describe.
Kate Northrup [00:24:55]
But I want to go back to that part where we feel like we're going to die when we change a pattern. Yeah. I remember our mutual friend Eliza, who's been on the podcast, and her episode was wonderful. She one day called me on FaceTime, just checking in. And I was really in it.
Kate Northrup [00:25:11]
And I was just like, everything felt so sad. I was just in a lot of grief, and I couldn't stop crying. And she was like, it makes sense that you are crying because there's a part of you that's dying and you're just doing such a beautiful job dying. She just sat on FaceTime with me while I cried and we just kind of cried together. And there were so many layers for me at that time around identity and moving from this small town where I'd grown up and family stuff.
Kate Northrup [00:25:41]
It really was like a certainly an ego death. Then also just did a dying of old ways and it was like it was it was really painful. So but so worth it because when we do that, when we go out in the field and wait while we feel like we're going to die for the new ligand to show up like love, that's so good.
Sarah Tacy [00:26:02]
Called it a molecule of emotion, yes. Anyone really like hold on to what the ligand is? Yeah.
Kate Northrup [00:26:07]
Exactly. And what happens is like, I do this thing when I'm trying something new or like wanting to do something that makes me uncomfortable, that requires a new part of myself, whether it's, you know, sitting down to work on my book proposal or, you know, yesterday I was doing an arm workout. It's what you teach about titration. OK? Like I can stay 3 more minutes and then after that if I want to check my phone, I can do that.
Kate Northrup [00:26:36]
If I want to just like not do the last set, I can do that. Inevitably for me, usually after three minutes, I'm like, well, I can stay for 5 minutes or maybe sometimes I don't. And so that ability, like it doesn't have to be, you know, you come from a like a ******** athletics background. I come from this like really intense academic background. And then we both have all this achievement stuff.
Kate Northrup [00:26:58]
So it's really like what we were taught, or what I was taught is that you just have to push through and have a grit. And so I want to highlight that standing in the field, changing the pattern, feeling like you're going to die is not the same thing as pushing past your comfort zone and just overpowering your boundaries to change. It's actually for me, it's like doing small doable parts. So it was like, you know, during that time of my life, I also felt really angry. So I felt a lot of sadness and I felt a lot of grief.
Kate Northrup [00:27:34]
So it's like, OK, I feel so angry right now. I can just go in the closet and for 30 seconds scream into a pillow. I don't have to do anything more than that. Just something to relieve the energy to move through an emotional stress loop, whatever it is, so that that feeling of I'm going to die. It's not like we have to stay there forever. Like we can stay there a little bit and then go find comfort or resourcing or whatever, right?
Sarah Tacy [00:28:00]
Yeah. And so I'm really loving that you brought up titration, because our conversation could have sounded very all or nothing. Leave the familiar. You must leave what feels safe and go die in the field. Until I was born sounds awful by.
Sarah Tacy [00:28:16]
Yourself, yeah, it doesn't have to and like titration is this idea of Bridget would say like I don't know that she would say this is the definition of titration, but she often says small doable pieces over time and the idea of penndulation, which we I'm going to say always I try not to use the always, but very often used in somatic work is first we'll find health right. Let's look for any piece of health anything. And I think you have this in one of your nervous system support programs on relaxed money. Look for any part in your body that feels like stability. Any part that finds feels like health.
Sarah Tacy [00:28:51]
And then we might penndulate to something that's challenging and we would put it in the company of health. It's not necessarily doesn't have to be a death in the middle of the field by yourself point of getting resources would be that you were on the phone with Eliza. Yeah, that's no I there is this idea of creating conditions so that as the charge gets bigger then we can, we're able to stay with that higher charge when we've created more conditions in our life. And the conditions include pause, they include welcoming your anger and your grief. They include healthy friendships, boundaries and right relations.
Sarah Tacy [00:29:32]
So there's a whole slew of things that falls under creating conditions. And on the other part of that three direction math, if we weren't able to complete that whole loop where we were out on the field, we have enough resources. We get to the new way of being in between. We get to soothe and distract. You know, like you said, we can jump on the phone, We can maybe get out one more e-mail than we thought we were going to.
Sarah Tacy [00:29:56]
It's like it gives a little bit of that old self like, OK, I won't like scare you all the way. So we get to, I do it over time and somebody on one of the relaxed money calls, so everyone listening once a month I go on and I support the program and we do a nervous system support portion and it's an hour long. And at the end they get to ask questions and somebody asked the question. They were like really amazed at how I don't remember the example, but it was a public example you gave of just saying like no to this really big deal and like choosing something else. I just, you know, for them it felt like I just don't know if I can do that.
Sarah Tacy [00:30:31]
Like I don't know. I'm even saying like, oh, is this OK for whoever is the share is just to say that much. And my response was that whenever you made that decision, whatever it was, there had been so many layers and times of practice before that. And although we have practice doing hard things, life generally gives us opportunities where they're like, oh, great job, try this next one. But we've learned a bit more. How to resource ourselves while we're doing those hard things. So it's not that it's easy. And so some of them are these quantum leap moments, but often because we've done so many small steps along the way. Yeah, Yeah, I love.
Kate Northrup [00:31:16]
That so much OK, there's a couple layers there that I want to share and it has to do with community and then I have a couple of questions to ask you about how you lead those sessions and relax money.
Sarah Tacy [00:31:28] So I want you to say those layers before you say the layers. I want to highlight something that I don't want to get missed from what's happened so far. What has happened so far is that Kate has outlined that in real time in the 3D World, there are real things that feel like they could be threatening or are threatening or are pressures. So I think often from the outside one could look and not because you're not real on your Instagram account. I think you do a great job of showing yourself and somebody could look and go like, well that's nice because XY and Z like because she can, because XY and Z and so easily and assume that nothing was real.
Sarah Tacy [00:32:13]
And So what I do want listeners to hear is like there was a lot real, there were a lot of real things going on when you started making the small doable changes. Like some of them were big leap and some of them are small doable changes to say, I'm going to try on this new way of being. I want to see what's possible. So I just want listener to hear that if you are listening and you're like, well, that's nice, but I have rent to pay. It's also not that Kate's path is the same path for you, but it can be the inquiry of are there any area that I can relax?
Sarah Tacy [00:32:46]
And then maybe Kate can even say a little bit about her program after this. And we changed the word for a second from relaxed and Eliza, she'll say layers of comfort. Layers of Comfort kind of works in this and kind of doesn't but.
Kate Northrup [00:33:02]
Well, I mean, I even think about like this one pair of overalls that I wore like almost every day at that time and, and the way in which like they really were comforting on my body. And I hadn't worn overalls regularly since I was 12. And there was something about these overalls that were like really essential in terms of like a physical feeling of layers of comfort.
Sarah Tacy [00:33:27]
So it was because I was thinking, when you're breaking a habit, it's not we're not looking for the comfort, but we are then creating a resource of comfort.
Kate Northrup [00:33:35]
In the situation like wearing a pair of overalls, which is definitely not doing any harm to anybody or anything or myself, right? So, so beautiful. OK, so I definitely want to get to double blinds next. So but I just want to say about that particular instance because I'm sure that folks listening have these desires to like expand and go for bigger things and have, you know, a life that continues to get even more beautiful and more luscious, right? And so at that particular time when I said no, it was a big speaking gig with like some of my most favorite authors and really fancy people who would be like a dream to be on a headline thingy with.
Kate Northrup [00:34:15]
But it was just like far away. And I was nursing and it was like, if I say yes to this, I will be sacrificing things that are more important, like my physical health and my kids. And Mike was so sick at the time. That was this was the first time he was sick. And I was just like, my family doesn't have the resources to actually handle this.
Kate Northrup [00:34:34]
Yes, So I said no. And then in the end, I ended up getting invited on a really big podcast that was happening at the time. I would have been at that speaking gig that definitely only reached way more people than I would have at the speaking gig because it's like virtual and it's like hundreds of thousands of people and it took an hour and I could do it. So that was just a perfect example of like, it's okay to say no to the big shiny thing. It doesn't mean that that was the only opportunity.
Kate Northrup [00:35:00]
Like there's an infinite number of opportunities and they're just going to keep coming. And that's one of the ways I tap into plenty is just really knowing that truth. But in terms of community and being able to resource from what's possible for other people, I grew up in a household with a mom who has a very similar career or had, you know, to what I do. And I saw her say no to fancy stuff. And I saw her not die and I saw her prioritize our well-being and her well-being and not get caught up in the FOMO of like, I have to chase every little thing.
Kate Northrup [00:35:34]
I talk a lot about unhealthy nervous system imprints and I wanted to highlight that the nervous system receives information about things that are threats and things that are really beautiful. And so that's a nervous system imprint I have of a feeling of safety and trust that like we don't have to chase the shiny object. Stuff will come to us in right timing and that's why it's so important to spend time in healthy community, healthy, safe community, you know, like the things that you offer like relax money, like other things that are around so that we can Co regulate and get new healthier nervous system imprints from other people who are having a lived reality of what we desire. Because by being around them, our nervous system recognizes like say that's possible and be it safe because look, they're right here and our bodies don't believe the lie of separation. They actually know that we are always in the same motion.
Kate Northrup [00:36:32]
Our mirror neurons can't tell the difference between if it's happening to Sarah or if it's happening to me. And so the lie of separation tells us that like, oh, must be nice for you. And the truth of our unity and our deep, deep connection will say like, oh, because that's happening for her on some level, that actually is happening for me. And when we embrace it that way, we actually do heal our nervous systems and upgrade their settings so.
Sarah Tacy [00:37:01]
What I would offer to listeners here, if that still feels impossible in any way, like where you look at something and said, like, I hear that, but I still feel like she could do that because she has this degree or because she has this or that. I would offer the may I show me the reticular activation tool right here to say, of course, like what you're saying is like the community is offering that vision. If someone said like, show me what it looks like to have trust in the universe, to know that I'm not the only one trying to get this program done. Show me that I can lean into something greater than myself. And then I feel like when somebody sees you doing it or sees someone else doing it, it feels like proof of the question they asked.
Sarah Tacy [00:37:46]
And if we ever look at someone and say, well, they can do that because of XY and ZI might say, I really love what they have. Show me in what way that's possible for me. Show me how it aligns with me, you know, not just like I don't to become them, but like how does that align with me and what will my path be there? Show me my path. And then in that way, we stop saying like, well, they can do that because they were AD one athlete. So they have the tenacity. They can do that because they went to an Ivy League school. We could start saying cool, they did that and they have these things. Show me my. Way there. Show me my way. Show me my way there.
Sarah Tacy [00:38:24]
And that way we can kind of take the SO comparison out a little bit and keep the inspiration and keep the curiosity, and then the brain will actually start seeing what it was missing before.
Kate Northrup [00:38:37]
I'm going to use that from good.
Sarah Tacy [00:38:40]
I actually kind of wanted to ask you this. This month I want to do a podcast on double binds and sacred thirds. And so if I were to describe to you a double bind, it would be I must, I can't. I must make more money. I can't make more money. And there could be a whole story behind it. I must relax. I can't relax, right? Like yours might be like, I must relax in order to heal my nervous system, in order to be magnetic for money. I can't relax.
Sarah Tacy [00:39:06]
My husband is super sick. I'm a mom of two. I need to pay the bills. So a double buy in is I must, I can't. And the sacred third is when we begin to look at the nuance of the two. So if you're listening, I have my 2 fists together and I'll do a whole podcast on this and we'll do one with like parenting and finances. And we made this reservation to go out to dinner. We let go of our child care help. Our friends said like we'll take your kids. My older 1 was like, I'm not going and a whole panic pack ensue.
Sarah Tacy [00:39:38]
Didn't she really want to go to dinner without them? We're like, we like we hadn't seen these people in five years. It was a super fancy place. There were only four seats. There was no room for 1/5 seat. It was not a kids place. But eventually, like when I look at the must, I can't like we must go to dinner. I can't go to dinner now because she could like and back and forth. I was like, you know what, sure, if you want to split a seat with dad and I and my youngest one went to go play with her friends next door. And I don't know if this makes sense, but as we looked at it, it wasn't like, no, you absolutely can't come to dinner because I could. The thing is, you open up one hand and you look at it like, OK, she can't come to dinner, but she can't stay here. I must like. And you keep looking back and forth and it's like, can she? Really not come to dinner right?
Sarah Tacy [00:40:17]
Under what conditions would it be OK? And so I was like, great. Like if you're willing to like, bring your coloring pad and pencils and know that it's going to be possibly not. And she was just like, it was so relaxing for her to sit in between Steve and I like that base. And as soon as she had that option, her whole body relaxed.
Sarah Tacy [00:40:37]
Steve and I got to do what we wanted to do. Like everyone, it was a win, win, win. And so one of the primary things in the alchemic alignment is that we'd love for situations to come out to a win, win. And so when we look at a double bind and we start looking at nuances, sometimes there's this sacred third in the middle that seems impossible when you're stressed. Yeah.
Sarah Tacy [00:40:58]
Over the two. Yes. So I think you kind of described it already, but I'm wondering if you can think of something from relaxed money, like an example in relaxed money where there's a double bind and how relaxed money might help you find a sacred.
Kate Northrup [00:41:12]
There. Yeah, OK. I love this. So one of the things that you taught me is that when we're in either or thinking we are in a trauma response. So when we're in a double bind, we can know like, oh, we're dysregulated.
Kate Northrup [00:41:25]
There is a part of me that feels a threat. And now I'm outside my range of resonance, my range of capacity. And so just knowing that really helps because it's incredibly rare that there's actually only two options. You know, like it just really is like, we can always find a way. And so nuance requires regulation.
Kate Northrup [00:41:51]
And what I know is that when we are dysregulated, when we are sensing a threat, there's less cerebrospinal fluid that flows from our bodies to our brain. There's less oxygen that flows to our brain. The left and right hemispheres are not talking to each other and we're literally just accessing less of our capability or problem solving or seeing possibility. I know our literal peripheral vision shortens, narrows, and so also does our energetic peripheral vision, our, our ability to see possibility. So also at that part, I didn't tell this story, my doctor, I just had my blood work done and my doctor basically was like, based on your hormonal panel, your brakes are broken and also so is your gas.
Kate Northrup [00:42:38]
And if you keep going like this, you're going to get really sick. And so I was also like, OK, I must take care of my body because my children cannot have two sick parents because then like, we're totally effed. So it really did feel like I must slow down. I can't because I have to make money for the family. And So what the mindset world would have us do is change our thoughts.
Kate Northrup [00:43:11]
But The thing is, when our bodies are in a sympathetic response and they feel unsafe, a better feeling thought is generally not available. Or if we can even think of it, it feels like a lie. And our bodies know we're lying. And so it just doesn't work. Like you cannot think your way out of a way that your body feels. And so in relaxed money, we practice. First of all, we learn all the anatomy of the nervous system, how to know when you're dysregulated and many, many different ways to find yourself back in a sense of safety and how to plug into source with a capital S, which is what you described with resourcing, layers of comfort, penndulation, titration. All of these things are ways that we can plug into source with a capital S And, and, and our best bet for doing that is accessing our embodiment, like getting into our bodies, connecting with nature, which is the truth of who we are. I don't remember what you said, but you said something really great about when we look at nature, we come back home to ourselves or something like that, because we are nature. Our nervous system is an entire network of nerves that go through our entire body.
Kate Northrup [00:44:26]
It includes the brain. Our nervous system speaks in electricity. The communication between all the neurons, all the synapses in the brain, everything, It's electric. Our entire bodies are running on electricity. If somebody flatlines, how do we bring them back to life? We shock them with what electricity. It is all energetic. That electricity has a frequency, you know, ACDC that was like not actually originated. It did not originate as a band. It originated because it's two different kinds of electrical current and there's way more than two different kinds.
Kate Northrup [00:44:57]
But that's just an example that you learn like, I don't know, in 8th grade or something. When we understand that our bodies are running on electricity, it becomes a lot easier to understand that dysregulation is a frequency and regulation is a frequency. And back to the double binds, when we're in a frequency of dysregulation and fear and our nervous system is dysregulated and we're in, I must, I can't, we're in like either or we're not like our radio is not turned to the channel of possibility and we cannot just decide. So a lot of people in my field will be like, just change the channel. And I'm like, no, you can't do that with your mind, but you can do it with your body.
Kate Northrup [00:45:46]
Your body is what changes the channel because your body is like a massive radio receiver. It's like an antenna. And so that's where we can get into. And it sounds like even just the act, and I don't know if you actually did this in the moment, but it was a great metaphor. Even just the act of opening a palm could be a way to find another possibility because it's just representing openness.
Kate Northrup [00:46:10]
It could be swaying back and forth. It could be, you know, you taught me lower back rib breathing. I mean, there's like a million different ways to access safety. But the name of the game is if I'm in a double bind, I just don't feel safe. And so I need to find a way to signal to my body that I'm safe and then trust that an idea will come through that actually is that sacred third that is a win, win, win, win, win, win, win, win.
Sarah Tacy [00:46:35]
I'm loving us for so many reasons. 1 is that you didn't give us your actual like you didn't say like so this was the sacred third what you said instead and you did you like didn't and you did. And what I feel like what you said instead and highlighted, which feels so important and so much more beautiful than saying so this is the third way out. Like this is the was just talking about the importance of coming back to your body, which can be hard when you're dysregulated. So in the three directions map to bring that map up one more time, which we went over with your group in December, double binds is the second direction.
Sarah Tacy [00:47:11]
It's looping. And so as we create conditions, which we can do slowly over time, then new ways of being. And so it sounds like you didn't just have like, well then I'm going to do this with my business and this will be my sacred third where my body and my but that actually it was a slow process of a lot of little changes of being with your body and going out and looking to the ocean. So I love that because instead of someone listening to this and thinking like, OK, I must find the sacred third now, it's the permission to know that it could happen slowly over time and that the process may not be an idea that you can come up with right away. The other thing you said was so brilliant.
Sarah Tacy [00:47:52]
It's Bridget who does the fists. And sometimes when I'm trying to come up with examples, I do it with my hands. And I used to teach a lot of emotional anatomy. And I remember I would have my students make fists with their hands and then flex their wrists and watch what happened to their breath. Just by having the fist closed, it does actually change our state a little bit.
Sarah Tacy [00:48:14]
And by opening the palm, as you said, I'm not sure I realized that, like, as Bridget did it, I just realized that, like, helped my brain think differently. And I'm like, Oh yeah, there is actually a physiological response to opening a palm and then to open the other palm. You think about the there's so much reason why we pray in certain ways and we do certain movements that actually every single movement changes our Physiology. And So what she'll do as she's thinking them out, it's like she'll have all those statements like this is true, although or, and, and you start kind of, yeah, like swaying back and forth until you just see, like you said, so many options. And I loved also what you said. Something around like nuance requires resonance.
Kate Northrup [00:48:54]
Yeah, same.
Sarah Tacy [00:48:55]
Yeah, yeah, so beautiful.
Kate Northrup [00:48:58]
It's on a different radio station.
Sarah Tacy [00:49:01]
And I also love that because I've heard so much about like just tune your radio station and that that gets to be a practice over time of changing within our bodies. The end of that three direction map is that the thing that activated you at the beginning can become extinct. It could happen. And you're like, oh, I thought I healed that pattern. And it's OK if like it's a lifetime thing, but a lot of times you forget that that was even a thing.
Sarah Tacy [00:49:29]
So it's like when you're now listening to a new radio station and you forget that you ever tuned into this other belief system or other way of being because the thing that's even possible feels true. And the one more thing I want to say about that is that the earlier on the timeline a certain reality was presented as true, the more impossible a new way can feel, which is the beauty of asking and looking for examples where someone survived a new way. I'm just feeling like, oh, I'm talking more drinks.
Kate Northrup [00:49:59]
That's great. OK, So I'm so glad you are because for those listening, like I want them to know the depth of knowledge and transmission that actually happens within Relaxed money, not only from the modules that I teach, but also from you being part of the program. I took 3 pages of notes as we were doing because I learned so much from you about our Physiology, about our energetics, about the nervous system. And so having that within our program and within our community is such an incredible gift because I do think that we can practice things. It's like one thing to practice things experientially, but for myself and I think for our students, there's such a deep gift in also understanding why it's working.
Kate Northrup [00:50:53]
Like I think it works better to practice it when we understand why, at least to some degree. And so I really appreciate how you bring it in and how you educate on that because, you know, it's one thing to just like teach a practice, but it's another thing to really understand in depth why it works. And I think it helps it to land much more deeply. So I'm really grateful for that. And I'm grateful for everything that you share today. So interesting and amazing. Helped me understand life better.
Sarah Tacy [00:51:22]
Yeah. And So what I'd love to say for listeners now too, is that I had kid on because I wanted to talk about this threshold because it's been such a huge thing. And I see her thriving. And the card that I pulled for our talk was After the Storm. And it's this owl.
Sarah Tacy [00:51:39]
And I can think of an owl as like wise and one that has great vision, can see like really far and big, but also like really specific. And it's holding up. I forget what this is it the Makaba?
Kate Northrup [00:51:50]
Oh yeah.
Sarah Tacy [00:51:51]
It's like a sign that I often see when my eyes are closed. But I think, you know, something that I can highlight is being able to like watch you in real life, the joy that you have, the friendships you've created, the way in which you really like you and Mike, like actually sit down every Friday. I'm going to like.
Kate Northrup [00:52:12]
Eavesdrop people are.
Sarah Tacy [00:52:14]
Every Friday and really talk about the things and what we haven't talked about too much here yet is there's so much practical monetary ideas too, because you have been running a business for probably 20 years now. I was going to say 10 but.
Kate Northrup [00:52:30]
No, it's 20 for sure. It's closer to 22.
Sarah Tacy [00:52:34]
So you're really good at this and money and the practical and it used to be your first book was like the practical and mindset. And now I feel like there's cyclical living and nervous system included. And so I am now an affiliate for this program. And I was wondering, I wanted Kate to come on so you could hear from Kate. And the reason, the only reason why I said yes to this is because I've gotten to be in the program now for six or seven months.
[00:52:58]
So I get to see how engaged the participants are and how many changes they're making and how authentic they are and how dedicated they are. And like you said, when you surround yourself with other people doing the work and the community conversation where I'm like, oh, this is something I can really get on board with. And also that I am, you know, I actually am on board because I meet with everyone once a month and it's so great
Kate Northrup [00:53:23]
This program is the most holistic financial healing program in existence because it combines the nervous system aspects, the energetics, the spiritual, the beliefs, the emotions, the mindset and the practical and not just the practical from the perspective of like here's how to manage your cash flow. By the way, we have an amazing, amazing system for that, but also like here's how to make more money and here's how to make more money in ways that aren't trading hours for dollars. And here's how to actually get that money working for you. So it's like really meets you on all the possible levels of healing.
Kate Northrup [00:53:59]
Not, it's not just a personal finance course, it's not just a nervous system healing. It's not just a money mindset or just a money energetics. A lot of what I see out there is just one of those things. Listen, any of those ingredients are phenomenal, but putting them all together really accelerates growth or deepens the growth. And so it's, I teach it over 13 live modules.
Kate Northrup [00:54:22]
I think there's a real benefit of being live. They are obviously also on replay, but if folks can be in that container live, even if they're listening to the replays, there's something about the Co regulation and being able to attune your nervous system to the nervous system of the group collective and being in this environment where everyone is committed to safety 1st and then also expansion. And then I have tone in my system, which is that I know absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt that anybody can create anything they want and no one could convince me otherwise about themselves. And so being in space with someone who knows that about you is powerful. It's like the content and then also that.
Kate Northrup [00:55:15]
And then you offer monthly nervous system healing and practice calls. And then I do monthly group coaching as well. And then and so that happens during the whole year if people choose to participate in that. And I am doing a free three day workshop called wide Receiver for people who want to step into the work and get those first steps going to take their financial healing to the next level. So if you are financial avoider, if you are just really wanting to up level, you know, our ideal student is someone who wants the degree to which they feel powerful on the inside with money to match the degree to which they appear powerful with money on the outside so that the inner begins to match the outer. And so, yeah, so I would love to meet any of your people, and I'm sure you'll have your link in the show notes.
Sarah Tacy [00:56:12]
Yeah, I'll have a link in the show notes. I wanted to add this, which is I haven't missed one of your three day calls yet. And the way that I see this, whether it's that you get monthly calls once you're in the program or you just listen to the three day call that Cade's going to do, which is free, just like this podcast is free. Like you can just do this portion saying like if you have the ability to do the three day, the reason why I do it over and over again, it reminds me of the reason why someone might go to church every Sunday. You're not hearing a new story like every Sunday.
Sarah Tacey [00:56:43]
They don't start reading a new book like you're hearing the same story, but you're like going to hear it from a slightly different angle. You're a slightly different person. It's like the idea of stepping into a river and it's never quite the same. But it's this layering for me of repetition, of putting myself in a place where a new possibility is being shown. And so I always log on.
Sarah Tacy [00:57:05]
Plus, I think you're an awesome presenter. I'm like the way like sometimes I think it's very hard to describe nervousness and stuff and the way that you describe things sometimes I'm like, that was incredible and so succinct. That's wow. So I just think you're really easy to learn from and I love like I almost came to tears when you talked about the way that you hold a tone of what you believe is possible. You've done that for me.
Sarah Tacy [00:57:29]
And so of course you're looking at me as we're doing this and you were talking about everybody. I'm like, she does. It's true the link will be here if you sign up for it and if you end up signing up through my link, I'm offering two private. So that's amazing signing up for relaxed money. After the free three through my link, I will add 2 private.
Sarah Tacy [00:57:53]
So if you think about having the monthly support from Kate and from me, and then at some point along the line, if you're feeling like something is a little unsure and you'd like some extra support, then we could go in for one-on-one.
Kate Northrup [00:58:05]
Love that. Thanks, Sarah.
Sarah Tacy [00:58:07]
Thank you. Thanks for coming on and thank you all for listening. I'll end with a may I when I noticed myself going into an either or an all or nothing. I must, I can't. May I just recognize my state?
Sarah Tacy [00:58:29]
May I remember that there is most likely a myriad of ways, and when they're not directly available, may I be open to the next right step, the smallest doable piece, and may that be enough. May I surround myself with people who inspire me, who show me what is possible through lived experience. May I remember that I am nature, that every time I come into resonance with nature, I get to feel more at home, more of a sense of self, and plenty. Thank you.
Sarah Tacy [00:59:25]
Thank you for tuning in. It's been such a pleasure. If you're looking for added support, I'm offering a program that's totally free called 21 Days of Untapped Support. It's pretty awesome. It's very easy, it's very helpful. You can find it at sarahtacy.com. And if you love this episode, please subscribe. And like, apparently it's wildly useful. So we could just explore what happens when you Scroll down to the bottom, subscribe rate, maybe say a thing or two. If you're not feeling it, don't do it. It's totally fine. I look forward to gathering with you again. Thank you so much.