104 - Ginny Gill: From Urgency to Devotion
Today on Threshold Moments, I’m joined by my good friend Ginny Gill.
Ginny is a gifted breathwork practitioner, professional space-holder, and veterinary oncologist. She also moves through life as a mother, wife, daughter, sister, forever learner—and most recently, as a participant in my Resourced program.
In our conversation, Ginny opens up about how life transitions, especially divorce, have shaped her relationship with her body and her inner knowing. Together, we talk about what it means to release urgency, honor your capacity, and stay devoted to what truly matters.
Hear us explore:
How divorce helped Ginny tune into her body’s wisdom
Practices for building inner trust
The questions that guided her toward slowing down
What we’ve learned from sabbaticals, group dynamics, and FOMO
How Resourced taught Ginny the power of devotion
⭐️ If you enjoy this episode, sign up for my free 3-day nervous system workshop — Opting Out of Urgency — happening live on Zoom September 16-19.
Episode Transcript
Sarah Tacy [00:00:06]:
Hello, welcome. I'm Sarah Tacy and this is Threshold Moments, a podcast where guests and I share stories about the process of updating into truer versions of ourselves. The path is unknown and the pull feels real. Together we share our grief, laughter, love and life saving tools. Join Us hello and welcome to Threshold Moment. Today I have with me my good friend Ginny Gill. She is a breathwork practitioner, she is a professional space holder and she is also a veterinary oncologist. She is a mother, a wife, a friend, a daughter, a sister and a forever learner.
Sarah Tacy [00:01:02]:
I asked Ginny on the podcast for three reasons, and we get to all three of them and I will say the first one is the one we spend the most time on the first one. We talk about the small steps that can be taken when you are on one life path that has worked with you or for you for a while, but you know that it's time to change. Say it's change your career, change your partnership and and it feels like a big leap to begin to notice. What are the small steps? What are the mindset? When I say mindset like what questions are we asking that help us to find better resources? And what it could look like to take small steps over time to honor the urges within you while also honoring some of the real life 3D needs that you might have which may be financial or may feel space bound or perhaps there's a child who needs certain things from you. So we can have these things in life that would say I must do this but I can't and so we can start to look at well what is true, is it a hundred percent true and what little changes can I make that feel more in alignment. And so she tells us her story with that as she was a full time veterinary oncologist and part practice owner and and is spending more and more time in the breathwork arena and spiritual space holding in the middle. We talk about the ability to have spaciousness and how it can be seen as a privilege, but that it is something that most of our systems really would need to do through choice and practice over time because most of our systems are wired for urgency. The last part is feedback on my course resource which is not available yet to the listeners.
Sarah Tacy [00:03:00]:
It is something that will come after my free program opting out of urgency but just to really get some feedback of what was it like for her to be in the course? Were the daily meditations useful? Was it something she could apply? Did the information feel like too overwhelming or was it given in a way that made Sense. And obviously I had asked her maybe a week or two ago, actually, for feedback from the course, which I was nervous to do. And so then having her give feedback live directly in front of my face, there was some vulnerability there, and it was really lovely and it all made sense to me. So without further ado, welcome, and I hope you enjoy our conversation as much as I did. Today we have with us my dear friend, Ginny Gill. Ginny and I first met, it was a week after I had had my eldest child and two weeks after she had had hers in a breastfeeding class. And I think that I remember the shirt that you were wearing. I feel like it was like a dusty rose beige ish color.
Sarah Tacy [00:04:22]:
And I had you in mind. I happened to have just sat next to you and you told me that you're from Brooklyn. And I remember going home being like, okay, she just moved from New York. I just moved from New York. We both just had babies. I hope she's there again next time. I think that we could be friends. And what I'll add to that is that when we're going to hang out, your primary job at that time was being veterinary oncologist.
Sarah Tacy [00:04:48]:
And I had a story in my head that might not be able to be friends because I had my own insecurity that people who are, like, really well educated in the Western methodology would think that I'm a little cuckoo and wouldn't quite get me and that it might not work out. And on our first walk, you're like. And I meditate. I was like, okay. But, yeah, it's been a really beautiful and dynamic friendship. And our daughters are best friends and our husbands are good friends, and we now live in the same neighborhood. And so I would say we're really growing in life together. And our friendship has often also called for us to be honest and work on our edges.
Sarah Tacy [00:05:41]:
And it's been one that has called for growth and mutual respect. And. Am I describing this well?
Ginny Gill [00:05:53]:
I think so. I think you're describing it really accurately. For me, it fits. I so often, I mean, I just relish that we've known each other since our daughters were babies. And for me, sometimes it's unbelievable that we've known each other for 10 years and it's been really rich. I was reflecting on it a little bit this morning. Yeah. Really, really rich.
Ginny Gill [00:06:21]:
And certainly full of growth edges for both of us, I think. And honesty and magic and joy and tears. So thank you for your reflection and description.
Sarah Tacy [00:06:36]:
Thank you.
Ginny Gill [00:06:37]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah Tacy [00:06:39]:
And at this point. Well, actually, today is my daughter's 10th birthday. And it's really interesting because I think I can sometimes measure how long I've been in Maine for, how long a friendship has been for by my daughter's age, which is, I guess, a benefit of moving right before you're about to give birth. But also, when this podcast comes out, we will be in the I wish there was a better word for launch in the launch period, for opting out of urgency. A free three day offering to really look from a nervous system perspective at the different times in life where we feel like we have no choice and that the only choice is to go harder and to go faster and to be the best and to to compete and that resources don't feel abundant enough. And so this workshop is just there to ask for a little pause in that belief system to say, yes, some things are really true. And are there any ways that we can resource ourselves to change our pace a little bit, to feel safer in our bodies and then our more nuances available? And I asked you on the podcast for a few reasons. One, you took the resource course last year.
Ginny Gill [00:08:01]:
I did.
Sarah Tacy [00:08:02]:
Two, as you were walking the other day, you were telling me about your spacious summer and I was like, wow, that's more complex and a bigger deal than I think most people would notice. And the third one is that I have been watching you over the last five years, maybe eight years, who knows, really on this journey of continuing to honor the line of work that you've been in for so long, while also honoring this deep pull and drive of a part of you that feels more like your core essence and like, how does that come forward more and more and more, while also taking to account the real life responsibilities of being a mother and a partner and having a home and all of this. So I'm going to start from number three and then move forward. So number three is, would you be able to tell us a little bit about the moment or. I'm sure there are moments where you had that really clear understanding that it was time for some sort of transition in your life. How you are able to take that possible urge and change it from the urgency of like, all or nothing, this must happen. I must cancel my whole life and find ways to move in in a more digestible pace.
Ginny Gill [00:09:26]:
Hmm. I love this question. And I think it's something that I still dance with. It's always been my body and I don't know that my awareness with my body has always been as linked as it is or as it is becoming certainly just constantly in this process of becoming. But the first, yeah, the first big change I made honestly was, was getting divorced. And it was something that when it arose in my body, it was just this undeniable truth that my mind didn't want to believe. And that was probably my first sort of breakthrough in just the undeniable truth that I have to listen to my body. And it became a lesson for how my path has gone on up until now.
Ginny Gill [00:10:34]:
Now it's much more. There's much more awareness in it. So thinking about, you know, I see. How long ago was it? I think in 2018, I started doing some psychedelic medicine type work. And very shortly after that I did my first breath work journey. I met a friend. I was on a retreat in Costa Rica. I met a friend, we were talking about psychedelics and she mentioned breath work and the way she described her experience, I was floored.
Ginny Gill [00:11:01]:
I couldn't believe that this was something that was accessible without a plant medicine. And so I came home and I signed up for a group pretty immediately and had a big experience, like access to material that I don't think I was aware was there. Like, I remember being at the end, I was dressed for work actually. Like, I had gone straight from work. So I was in my dress that I had worn that day to my veterinary job and I was on the floor and I remember kind of coming to after the session and just, yeah, no other words than being quite floored and quite curious and quite surprised at what had just arose. Not in a bad way, in a way that was like, oh, wow, there's so much here. And so then, you know, I began doing more breathwork journeys and ultimately my teacher offered a training and I read the offering and I thought, oh, I don't know, is this for me? I don't know that I'm going to be a breath worker. But again, like, listening to the body, there was an impulse like, yep, that's something I want to do and I actually don't need to know what the next part is.
Ginny Gill [00:12:13]:
Took the course and then the next thing you know, it's like, oh, I, I actually do want to try this as, as more of a, like, path of what I'm offering in the world. And so I think I could go on and on. But that is the, you know, it was like this very first. I think my divorce was probably a bit of an initiation to those body signals, one that was completely undeniable. And then it's become more integrated over time where, yeah, something in the body arises. I might see an Offering I might see a course. I might notice something that I desire in the world, and then finding the little paths for what might be next. Yeah.
Sarah Tacy [00:12:56]:
When you say it was undeniable in your body, what did that feel like? What made it so clear that that was.
Ginny Gill [00:13:01]:
Oh, gosh, it was uncomfortable. Mm. At the time, trying to really sit and remember back and feel back. It was. Let's see if I can find the words to describe this. It was that feeling of the way that my body felt then. Like, it. It felt was uncomfortable.
Ginny Gill [00:13:35]:
It felt not in flow. It felt. It felt like it was giving me clear. I mean, my belly is always a big signaler. It felt like it was giving me clear messages that my. My outer world was not matching what my inner desires were. If that makes sense. Mm.
Ginny Gill [00:13:55]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah Tacy [00:13:56]:
So if I were to clarify that or ask you back, your outer world perhaps looked really quite perfect with Job. And, like, my understanding is your husband's a really nice guy. And, like, everything seemed really great, but inside you were feeling tightness, and it was like, I. I think I hear I said tightness. I think that was, like, the feeling that I was feeling as you were saying that. But the words that you did use, I think was just, like, a great level of discomfort internally and in your belly.
Ginny Gill [00:14:27]:
Yeah.
Sarah Tacy [00:14:28]:
As you said it, I will just say I had this full. Like, full body, tingling arm, legs. Like, my whole body was like, whoa. So maybe this is why I'm like, oh, okay. I'm curious. Something's here. As you step through it, were there any ways that you resource yourself in doing it and how did you feel on the other side? Like, when did you know all along that you're like, yes, this is the right decision? Or was it until you got at another point in your life where you could feel the before and after and go, oh, my gosh, I had no idea I could actually feel this good in my body.
Ginny Gill [00:15:07]:
Yeah. So at the time, I've always, I think, been lucky to have a really beautiful circle of friends. And at the time I reached. I had never been in therapy before. I come from a family where that's just really not a thing I would say. I come from a family where we don't ask for a lot of. They don't ask for a lot of external help, but I had a lot of amazing friends. And I recall asking a friend, like, how do I find a therapist? Just a very simple, like, I need a therapist.
Ginny Gill [00:15:38]:
How do I find one? I lived in New York City at the time, and New York City is Also, you know, it's a wealth. There's so much going on there. And so I would also, like. I would be in the subway and I would see a flyer for a meditation event. I would hear a friend speak about some sort of event. It was a lot of. In the beginning, a lot of meditation. And I ended up.
Ginny Gill [00:16:00]:
I've joked about it. I've end. I ended up in some of the wackiest, wildest places for meditation groups, like Brooklyn, you know, warehouses in Brooklyn, a small apartment, a very strict Tibetan Buddhist sort of group. But I just kept listening. Like, I just kept, like, I know these resources are out there, and I'm gonna keep trying until I kind of find the one that. That fits. I think it's when I started doing. I had a dear friend who was a yoga teacher.
Ginny Gill [00:16:30]:
I had never done yoga before. I went to visit her. I went to one of her classes. I think I just widened my view. Like, I had faith that there were resources out there for me. I didn't know exactly what they were, but I trusted myself to keep. To keep following the thread and finding them. And I would notice that, how my body felt, you know, after a yoga class, after meditation, it was.
Ginny Gill [00:16:53]:
I have such awe and wonder at the places that I landed and the gifts that I received from that time. Just specifically thinking about some of the meditation groups that I ended up in and really thanking myself for following it and also just being in awe that those things existed and still exist. Yeah.
Sarah Tacy [00:17:17]:
Yeah. There's part of me that wants to point out to anybody who's out there that's like, do I host a meditation group? Does it even matter? Do I lead the yoga class? Does it even matter that there's one, the person who's curious enough to be on the lookout and brave enough to show up? And then also how important it is that those people followed their pull to do what they're doing to create those containers. Because you and I know also now, like, the bravery it takes to. To create those containers.
Ginny Gill [00:17:50]:
Absolutely.
Sarah Tacy [00:17:52]:
I'm just loving how that all weaves together. And also honoring the inner trust. I have interviewed so many different people who, as they're going through their thresholds in some of their darker moments. And even if they're say they've been in a scenario where their compass has felt like it was off like that. Like a betrayal happened that they were unaware of, and then it's like, can I trust myself when I listen to their story? It's not unusual that even in these places, there is like, a next Step. Whether it's calling a certain friend or just like, I just need to get on a plane to, you know, Colorado or wherever it is where. Then they find the next thing to really see. Because part of me wants to be like, where did that inner trust come from? And as I'm thinking through all of these different stories, it's really amazing how there can be these little pokes on tops scenarios.
Sarah Tacy [00:18:52]:
And I'm also wanting to highlight for the listeners something that comes through for me, which is that reticular activating system that I really love. Where yours is tuned to. Right? Because if it is tuned to, I know all the answers and it's this or that. It's. I'm stuck between a hard place and a rock and a hard place. Not a lot of things show up. I heard you just like saying the question like how, where? I know it's there, just where is it? And so there's like the how, the where. And then I noticed it on a subway and then I noticed it there.
Sarah Tacy [00:19:32]:
And then my friend did this and it's like you were tuned on and asking like the next right question of where is there? Can you lead me in the direction of a therapist? Just those little questions and the staying open, how life saving that can be again. I feel like this is part of the prophosis that I'm like now highlighting the. Whether it's opting out of urgency or just like real life honesty is like, wow, when things can be really hard, when we are able enough to even say show me. I'm open to. There's gotta even. Like there's gotta be something better than this. Right?
Ginny Gill [00:20:12]:
Right.
Sarah Tacy [00:20:12]:
Even feels so like it's. There's gotta be that. It is really amazing what shows up and whether it's just what our brain is now open to seeing or quantum physics or a spiritual world and intelligence that's aligning it all. It's pretty amazing.
Ginny Gill [00:20:28]:
It's incredible. Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah Tacy [00:20:32]:
Okay, so now, now we're. We're in Maine and you have had some psychedelic experiences and you are being led into breath work. And the next part that I'm interested in again because I feel like this is the double bind Sacred third for many when you're feeling this pull towards something new. But a lot of your daily life and energy is being put into your current job important and life giving in many ways that, like how to balance or that transition or making decisions. I feel like, okay, this is how. This is how I can honor myself. And each one of these things and the process can you walk us through a little bit how you've been in that dance because I think there are a lot of people, I think there are a lot of people in this space.
Ginny Gill [00:21:29]:
A few things came to me, you know, as I'm thinking of your question and kind of trying to put some mind with the body again, I think there's always been this part of me or, or, or this part of me arose. And I think some of it maybe even is, is as simple as curiosity. But this part of me that knows to ask so one, to trust myself, but also to not isolate myself and to know that there's a ton of resource out there. So again, right now I have an incredible therapist and if I feel, you know, when thinking about work and something coming up, she may just reflect back to me, like, is that true? You're almost thinking about like Byron Katie's work. Like, is that true? Is what you're assuming a truth? And so one hearing this person sort of in a very open way, not saying one or the other, it's like, let's investigate. This is, is what you're saying, is what you're feeling true? Okay, so that's one thing. And then you brought up beforehand, which I know the listeners haven't heard, but we chatted about a little bit. My therapist brings up this idea of is this true? This all or nothing.
Ginny Gill [00:22:49]:
You know, I have to stay in this job or I have to be a breath worker. My heart is here. I want to be in breath work. But I do have a family, I do have a home, I have a career that's really successful and that I'm good at. Do I have to pick one or the other first this. Is that really true? And then two, starting to again open my antenna. Reached out to a good friend of yours, an astrologer that you introduced a group of friends of ours to. I can't remember what the exact hit was, but there was something in me that was like, I think I want to get a reading.
Ginny Gill [00:23:22]:
I think I want to get a reading. And my experience of hers is very truth telling, like very. Not sugarcoating?
Sarah Tacy [00:23:31]:
No. She dropped a bomb on me the other day and I was like, whoa, I totally miss this about my life. And it like re. It helped me see things about my own life in a way I hadn't seen before.
Ginny Gill [00:23:43]:
Wow, that's incredible.
Sarah Tacy [00:23:45]:
Yeah, incredible. We're talking about Jen Rastiope, who has been on the podcast before and she is a very talented astrologer and she has a background in coaching and she has Done, like, has a degree in positive psychology and is just never. She will never stop learning about herself and her life process. And so her sessions, yes, can be super specific with your own astrology. But she kind of has, like a really great BS meter, too. And just be like, yeah, she heard me.
Ginny Gill [00:24:18]:
Sort of like wishy. No, this is my. I'm gonna give my filter on it. Kind of like wishy washing. Like, oh, I wanna be a breath worker, but, oh, I've gotta be a veterinarian. And, you know, I had already had this moment with my therapist where she's like, is that, you know, is this true? That it's one or the other. And I don't know if I had already thought about having a. Taking a sabbatical.
Ginny Gill [00:24:38]:
I think I had. I can't quite remember the sort of order of things, but I wasn't sure if that was possible. And I recall that she gave me like, a bit of a. Like, if you're gonna do this, like, you gotta do it now. And so having a little of a external, like, I hear what you're saying, I hear that there's a middle path and if you're gonna do it, like, let's do it. And then leaning into support from there. So if I guess it was a year and a half ago, I took a sabbatical, which again, was something that I think I knew as an idea. I had a friend that had taken a sabbatical.
Ginny Gill [00:25:11]:
I think that's where it came from. I had a friend that had taken a sabbatical. Curious if that was something I could do. It's not something you hear about, at least for me in the veterinary world and the physician world. And I thought, like, oh, if I'm going to take a sabbatical, I need to go, like, study zebras, you know, I need to be doing something with my sabbatical.
Sarah Tacy [00:25:30]:
Or like, if a snapping turtle bites your finger, how do you get it to release?
Ginny Gill [00:25:33]:
Right.
Sarah Tacy [00:25:33]:
Which was one of my first questions.
Ginny Gill [00:25:34]:
I asked you also, Sarah, you've asked me some questions about woolly caterpillars.
Sarah Tacy [00:25:40]:
Yes.
Ginny Gill [00:25:42]:
So that's urgency, right? Like, I need to be. I'm going to take a sabbatical. I still, you know, this urgency mindset is definitely very programmed into my body. I mean, it's programmed into us culturally, but also program. Programmed into me in my family system, programmed into me from veterinary school. It's definitely a pretty big pattern for me. And so the continual questioning of the truth of that pattern, I think is actually something that's been Extraordinarily helpful for me. Who's telling you that if you take a sabbatical, you need to be doing something? When I asked for my sabbatical, no one told me or suggested or asked or said, you've, if you're going to take a sabbatical, you've got to do this.
Ginny Gill [00:26:29]:
So I, as we're speaking, yes, just the questions of where is that sense of urgency coming from? Is it true? What else might be true? And I guess before that has to come the awareness that there is a sense of urgency, which I think for me, again, I'm looking back to, you know, my first marriage and the sort of incremental steps that I've taken to realize that so much of this urgency either comes from the external world or comes from some of my programming. Just the continual questioning, like, what happens if I take a pause in my career? Only good things happened. Only good things happened.
Sarah Tacy [00:27:13]:
And I feel like it's worth saying here that it wasn't something where they said, we have this sabbatical program. And so you really had to, like, stand up for yourself and explain why it's important. And then it can be an example for others of like, oh, there's so much health and most likely, most likely most physicians and doctors would benefit. And I'm not sure that anyone would argue with this.
Ginny Gill [00:27:41]:
Yes, please.
Sarah Tacy [00:27:43]:
I'm like, you know what, in what career would somebody not benefit if someone's working three jobs, if somebody's like, people would benefit? And it's that idea of self care is community care. Like, when we come back, we're going to be kinder to the people we're working with. We're going to be kinder to the patrons. We're going to be more excited. We're going to see more options of like, oh, we could try this or that. We're going to be more creative. But there, there is. Yeah, this is just the way capitalism is set up and urgency culture.
Sarah Tacy [00:28:10]:
And so it is kind of a path that has to often be made individually. I imagine it can feel scary.
Ginny Gill [00:28:18]:
Yes, it was a little scary. You know, I really wanted it. I didn't want to be told no. There was a part of me of like, what happens if I'm told no? And I think it's really true what you said. I think anyone benefits from a pause, a little bit of a break, especially if you're in a busy, demanding job, which many, many in this country are. Damn.
Sarah Tacy [00:28:48]:
We've all felt the lie of urgency, the one that hides in our inboxes to do lists, the launch calendars. It feels true. But what if it isn't 100% true? This isn't a productivity hack. It's a pause, a reclamation. In my free three day workshop called Opting out of Urgency, on day one, we'll lean into resonant pacing. The place where choice lives and we feel like we can exhale. Day two, we explore the sacred third path, the one that reveals itself when we escape the trap of false binaries. All or nothing thinking.
Sarah Tacy [00:29:34]:
In day three, we enter the tension field between the familiar and the optimal, where sustainable relationships can begin to take place. Place the ones that feel true, good and healthy. Because the most powerful decisions aren't made in urgency. They're made when we become more human. And here's where I say more range, less rush, fully human. I would be so honored if you joined us in this three free day workshop called Opting out of Urgency. And so the sabbatical led to more. Just like what you're saying, like more space, not rushing.
Ginny Gill [00:30:24]:
Yeah, more space, you know. I went back currently and again with the help of my extraordinary therapist. I told myself I had been working three days a week prior to the sabbatical, I had a position as a corporate wellness. I developed wellness programs for the corporation for employees. That was one day a week and then two days a week in the clinic. And I told myself I had to go back two days a week, I was going to give up one day. And she again just challenged me, like, do you have to do that? Could it be one day a week? And so examining, not that she was giving me an answer, but for me to be able to examine, oh, what do I really want? What's my desire here? And can I make my world match my desire? Even recently, a coach that I work with, her name is Kathy Coyle, she was kind of again challenging me on if you want to be a breathwork practitioner and even sort of widening that up, you know, beyond just breath work. But if you want to, if you want to follow this heart's passion of yours, what are some steps that you can take now? What, like, what are the ways that we can support you in getting from here to there and then figuring out how it fits with my current reality of life.
Ginny Gill [00:31:46]:
And so I'm in the process of, you know, I work one day a week, sometimes two days a week. The rest of the time I'm doing breath work or visioning breath work or yeah, a lot of times I'm taking courses and deepening my, deepening my own knowledge and wisdom base and learning, but really just constantly sort of recalibrating and listening of like, okay, what's the next place that I want to be? I think if I speak really honestly, at some point, I want to be doing work with clients one on one and in groups as my primary. You know, my primary, what I offer to the world primarily not because I. I don't love animals and I haven't loved my career as a veterinarian, but we're ever evolving humans. And I think for me, it's been actually a real gift to find.
Sarah Tacy [00:32:40]:
The.
Ginny Gill [00:32:41]:
Kind of in between paths. It would have been hard for me, I think, if I speak honestly, to completely give up my identity. You know, there's a lot of my identity that is wrapped up in being a veterinarian, and I could be hard on myself about that. But instead, I feel like I'm really honoring at the same time, like, all that that career gave me and all that I learned and continue to learn. Like, I'm a veterinary oncologist. So I'm sitting with people that are highly attached to their pet, that pet is beloved, and they're going down a path of walking towards that pet, that pet's likely death. And so I don't want to just kind of push that away because I feel like I have so much identity wrapped up into it. It's been a real path of honoring that.
Ginny Gill [00:33:32]:
It's not the all or nothing that I'm going to keep listening. I'm going to keep evolving. And I think it's so natural for humans to evolve. It's what we do. We change all the time.
Sarah Tacy [00:33:44]:
And as you know, a mentor and friend of ours, and especially for you, Therese Jordland, talks about the calcification when we only stay in clarity and we only stay in our expertise and we don't question our current realities. And I think she calls it walking rigor mortis she spoke about on the podcast last year when she came over.
Ginny Gill [00:34:04]:
I remember that.
Sarah Tacy [00:34:06]:
And so it just sounds like you're in that constant evolution of, like, what is going to die off today and what am I going to nourish into, more health and what gets to stay neutral. And I am. It's funny, I'm having all these, like, flashbacks to when we first met. And so I. I'm remembering that walk that I asked you about, the snapping turtle, as we were walking through Robinson Woods. And I think I was trying to understand veterinary oncology, too, because you're like, well, I don't really work with turtles. I'm more like dogs and cats, and I do oncology. And I was like, oh, so.
Sarah Tacy [00:34:39]:
And I, like, had this idea that oncology with humans were often like, oh, how are we gonna save this life? And you were saying, a lot of times it's, how do we create the most comfort for what is most likely going to happen in that moment? I was like, oh, so she's more like a death doula? And just like, wow, she's walking this path where, yes, like, people are coming for her science and her expertise, but how important your presence is with these people as they're about to experience something deeply painful and meaningful. And I can see how much that weaves into these. These new, you know, these. These fields that you're so interested in these days.
Ginny Gill [00:35:23]:
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. We were.
Sarah Tacy [00:35:27]:
I was going for a walk with my dog the other morning, and you were on a run with your friend. And I asked, like, that really hard question to answer, which is like, so, how's your summer going? And I don't remember your friend's answer, but it was. It was close to yours. It was like, same, same, but different. And you said that yours was spacious. And then I believe you guys were jogging and I was walking, so I continued walking. You guys went your way. And I was thinking about my summer.
Sarah Tacy [00:35:56]:
I was like, wow, my summer has not felt spacious. It's felt really focused and fun. Like, there have been bouts of fun, but a lot of focus and a lot of containment. And I thought, well, I'm really happy to have that in my life right now. And spaciousness sounds freaking awesome. Right. And I was thinking about, like, not one being better than the other, but just, like, different cycles that we go through.
Ginny Gill [00:36:27]:
Absolutely.
Sarah Tacy [00:36:28]:
There's like a cycle for one and then a cycle for another. And I was thinking about how sometimes spaciousness would seem only like a privilege, which it often does come with privilege. And I think most of the time, most of us lose access to spaciousness because of the unconscious continuous energy of urgency. And that even if we. Like, if I get a babysitter, then suddenly I'm like, great, now I have two more hours to do my work. Right. If I get help here, then it gives me freedom to go do more here. Almost like you're saying with the sabbatical, like, do I do more? So as I, you know, kept walking and thinking about the idea of spaciousness, I was thinking what a strong practice that it is to actually be able to receive spaciousness and how not that many nervous systems would be able to hold spaciousness and so I was really aware of, like, the years of unwinding and practice and choice that you've been in and actually how complex and beautiful the answer was.
Ginny Gill [00:37:46]:
Mm. Mm. Yeah. Thank you. When you said the portion about, you know, I don't think a few years ago my system, my mind might have dreamed about spaciousness. And I know that I even stated it to someone like, I want to have a spacious summer. But my body, my nervous system didn't really know what that felt like. It knew.
Ginny Gill [00:38:14]:
The summer comes. You've got in Maine eight or 10 weeks, there are a whole bunch of people that want to come visit. There are numerous opportunities, and I think many times I say yes, and I have a lot of joy out of those yeses. But there also wasn't in my nervous system a lot of safety in the saying no. And I've realized or come to realize like, how subtle the no can be, that there's really so much choice. So, for instance, this summer I've. I was with a group of friends. It's going to be a really just basic example, but I was with a group of friends.
Ginny Gill [00:38:57]:
We had just done a bit of a ceremony, and one of them was going to go jump in the ocean. Jumping in the ocean sounds incredible. I want to jump in the ocean every day. But there was something in me that was like, nope, not right now. Not right now. I actually, like, my choice is to go inside and to unwind and to do a little bit of integration. And I noticed it and I spoke it like, oh, wow, that's a really big change for me. Typically, if I hear someone say they're gonna go jump in the ocean, it's friends that I love.
Ginny Gill [00:39:30]:
I know my body's gonna feel great. Why would I not go jump in the ocean? But my nervous system, over time has been able to attune, you know, I'm calling it my nervous system, but knowing that it's me. But, you know, the nervous system that accompanies this body has been able to opt out. You know, not all the time, but it really has been able to opt out. And even if that doesn't feel like urgency, and even though that certainly is a privilege to be able to go jump in the ocean, there's also the really big component of just the incremental over time, me trusting and knowing, like, that sounds amazing, and I'm gonna go do this thing instead. That's not as sexy and maybe doesn't have the, like, adrenaline rush, but it's just gonna allow my body to sort of be in a more aligned place. And those small things have actually been what's led to the spaciousness of my summer. It's been a lot of.
Ginny Gill [00:40:25]:
Not like, no, I don't wanna do that, but just, yeah, quiet, quiet. Choosing of what feels the most in service to me within the sort of framework that I have. I still work, my days at work are really busy. I'm tired on those days. But in the times that I have really clear choice, the noticing that my, my body doesn't always sort of go towards that almost like compulsion of do, do, do. Yeah.
Sarah Tacy [00:40:59]:
And so there's the, the impulse and then enough pause to go, is that impulse actually true or is it.
Ginny Gill [00:41:07]:
Yes. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Sarah Tacy [00:41:10]:
Because I have said that the body is the no BS gps. And I think where that can get confusing is like, well then why do I have this impulse? Or why do I want to go on to social media or why do I. And so then there's like the differentiation over time of what is deeper truth speaking through the body and what are impulse loops through habit or discomfort. And I do think it takes some time to unwind those a little bit to be able to recognize and differentiate.
Ginny Gill [00:41:36]:
Absolutely.
Sarah Tacy [00:41:37]:
As you were saying that, I was like, oh my gosh. I was thinking about like I was on a trip in New York City and everybody was gonna go out to lunch and there was this great place and I kept looking over at this tub and I've like never. I'm always, whenever. If I go to a hotel and it has a nice tub, I'm like.
Ginny Gill [00:41:52]:
I'm totally gonna use that this time.
Sarah Tacy [00:41:53]:
And I like never do because right. The trip gets filled up with fun things or. And I was like, I think I just wanna stay back. And I got dressed, then I went upstairs to my other friend's room and she's like literally in the tub. And I think she was gonna get outta the tub and go. But I was like, that's actually what I mean. So even though these women, like they all live in different parts of the country, I only have a few days to see them. Having time to just drop in and go into deep self care allows me so that when I'm with them, I'm not just running on like adrenaline and high.
Sarah Tacy [00:42:27]:
I'm actually deeper in my body. And so the whole experience becomes richer because I'm actually still with myself. I haven't lost myself to the group energy completely and it's pretty rewarding and it's different. Yeah, yeah.
Ginny Gill [00:42:46]:
I mean, could say so much about that. But Definitely resonate very, very much. It can be easy too, to just get swept into group energy, you know.
Sarah Tacy [00:42:55]:
Which is a good thing about surrounding yourself with people you love. Because then it's like, oh, there's no bad answer. But as you refine it more and more and more. Yeah, and I would say, you know, as I. I interviewed Tel Darden the other week and I was saying I've learned so much about opting out of urgency from her because I was like, do you want to be on the podcast? And she's like, ask me in a year. And I think it was again, like, ask me in a year. And then this year she reached out to me, Hey, I have this program I'm really excited about. Do you have space? And I said, I just.
Sarah Tacy [00:43:24]:
You just like, really had no, like this or never? And she's like, yeah, I just trust in, like the ongoing space of our relationship. And, and for me, that also helps with fomo. Right. If I don't make it to that one, like, it's just like, oh, I am where I'm meant to be. Like, a little bit of information of that something that I think that I'd like. And it's all good.
Ginny Gill [00:43:48]:
It's all good. Yeah.
Sarah Tacy [00:43:50]:
Okay. Lastly then, like, you can unplug this. Even at the beginning of the. You took resource last year.
Ginny Gill [00:43:57]:
I did.
Sarah Tacy [00:43:58]:
So after opting out of urgency, There is a 12 week course and that one is paid. And opting out of urgency, I am very clear that I want the free, free day course to feel as good as the paid course. And then there will be two days at the end where you can rewatch the information. And there's no, like, you must buy this and, or like. And there will be no parts of the teaching where I will withhold information so that people feel like they have to buy the course. But alas, there is also a 12 week option after the free course. And I tuned in, I asked you, and I was, I told you that I was a little nervous about asking you for feedback afterwards just because of like, the richness and complexity of our friendship. And like, or maybe it's not even that.
Sarah Tacy [00:44:46]:
Maybe it's just like getting feedback, which has been really lovely actually, to sit with people and get feedback on the course. And you've taken so many amazing courses and some of them are live and in person and some of them are online. And I was wondering if you would be willing to share a little bit. I asked you for a testimonial and you gave me a purple one. The Other day. It was really helpful for me to understand my own program a little bit when it gets reflected back. And so I was wondering if you would be willing to. I don't know if this is awkward.
Sarah Tacy [00:45:23]:
I cannot. I can sit sideways and not look.
Ginny Gill [00:45:25]:
No, you can sit face on. Yeah, I would love for you to sit face on.
Sarah Tacy [00:45:30]:
Woo. This is actually a little vulnerable for me.
Ginny Gill [00:45:32]:
Or sit how you want, obviously. Of course. Okay. So, Sarah, I have experienced you over these last few years. I mean, one, I met Sarah, as she said, when we were in a breastfeeding class together. But she was also a yoga teacher. And I would go to her class every other Tuesday. It was part of my ritual was to attend your class every other Tuesday.
Ginny Gill [00:46:01]:
And it was a different way of being with yoga than I had been before. And I think at that time I knew, we spent a lot of time together during those years. I knew and felt what a devoted student you had been and how you had followed your inner compass. And I've watched you do that with nervous system work. You weren't doing it to do the next big thing or to, you know, I don't know that you had a vision for this course back when you started taking, when you started working with alchemical alignment. And the word that came to me this morning when I was thinking about this a little bit was devotion. Like watching your devotion to learning and to. It's more than learning to like really being with something that is speaking to you, something that you're feeling in your body, this resonance and this like, more, more, more.
Ginny Gill [00:47:04]:
So for me then being able to take a course where you have learned so much as a yoga teacher, as a physical trainer, as a student of nervous system work, you taking your Sarah experience of all of these things in your body and, and synthesizing it. I've said this so many times. The way that you synthesize information and not just like spit it back out, the way that you synthesize it and make it your own, add your true magic to the material. For me is just gold. Like, it's absolute gold. You're not recycling information. You're. It's.
Ginny Gill [00:47:47]:
It's Sarah. It's Sarah's integration of years of study that are then put out into the world in my experience of the course, in ways that were so applicable, so digestible, like I told you, like I listened to every daily meditation not because I felt like I had to, but because I wanted to. And the way that I've been able to weave in information from the course into just the complexities of my life. So as a breath worker, as an oncologist, as a. As a partner, I will find I've noticed this a bit like there are times when I'm. Things that I've learned from you, specifically in resourced, I've woven. I've integrated them into my. Into my way of being.
Ginny Gill [00:48:41]:
And that's really incredible. Like, it doesn't feel like a. A stealing of the material. It feels like an integration of. I took this course for a reason. I didn't feel like I was grasping or clawing for resource. I didn't feel like I was in a state of desperation. I felt like I wanna.
Ginny Gill [00:48:59]:
I wanna learn this information, be with this information, specifically with you, knowing the student that you are. I didn't have a real, like, mental part of it other than just this, again, feeling of like I sat with it for a while, like, yep, yep, yep, I want to do it. And it's just showed up in so many ways beautifully in my life as I'm sitting with a client and perhaps doing an orientation, you know, an orientation of. Of where we are. As I'm thinking about different things that I've. I've experienced in the course, feelings that have stuck with me from meditations. So, yeah, it was such a delight to be in your course.
Sarah Tacy [00:49:40]:
Thank you. Thank you, thank you. I have said, I maybe asked you, Ginny, but I asked a few other people who took the course. Is it too much to have daily drips like to have? Because I offer often, like a little bit more of a piece of information or something that was in that week's call and then bring it into a meditation. And I was really surprised that. Yeah. That most people are like, no, no, no, no, leave those. That they're a really nice integration point to follow it.
Sarah Tacy [00:50:12]:
And part of the inspiration for that was that I took Mel Robbins launch course and we had a notebook. So this coming year I'm gonna have a. A printable notebook to go with it so that we can take it from meditation to, you know, writing a thing or two.
Ginny Gill [00:50:25]:
I love that. Yeah.
Sarah Tacy [00:50:26]:
Oh, I'm so excited.
Ginny Gill [00:50:27]:
I love that. I think that's great.
Sarah Tacy [00:50:29]:
Yeah, I'm so excited. I think I just didn't have the capacity, you know, like, just like the creation of it last year.
Ginny Gill [00:50:34]:
You're evolving.
Sarah Tacy [00:50:35]:
What I had, I'm evolving. And so what helped me stay consistent with her course because I have a hard time completing online courses and the homework that I get from online courses often feels big, but it's not. It's not like there's not a time of day that I've set aside. So with her course, it was like 15 minutes a day. I would listen to her lecture or her, you know, inspiration for speech, and I'd fill out my. My what, my why, and then something from the video. And then I would go do my 15 minutes of focused work on the project. And I was so excited every morning to get up and do it.
Sarah Tacy [00:51:14]:
So it just helped weave it all together to have something that was consistent and small enough. So that is where those, you know, part of the inspiration for that came from, too.
Ginny Gill [00:51:24]:
Yeah, I think. Yeah, it was really, really helpful. And I. I attended some of the live courses as you.
Sarah Tacy [00:51:29]:
No.
Ginny Gill [00:51:29]:
And it was always my goal, but life happens. If I didn't attend the course live, then I would often. I usually would watch the video. So there's video, audio, and perhaps some written material. I usually would watch the video. And then I think you just said it so well, but I want to repeat it. The Daily Drips really made it so that my body was absorbing the information. It wasn't my mind.
Ginny Gill [00:51:55]:
It was that my body was getting to really integrate the information without having to. It didn't feel like work. And I think I told you, I'll just share quickly. As Sarah said, I've taken a lot of courses. I am a true lifelong learner, and I probably, you know, I finished most of them, like, I do finish most of them, but I don't. I probably finish 75%. And in your course, I attended every call, whether it was live or recorded, and I listened to every Daily Drip. And it wasn't out of any sense of urgency.
Ginny Gill [00:52:26]:
It was out of a sense of want and a sense of how good it felt to be able to receive this information that is so applicable to the day today. And that has helped me opt out of urgency. It's helped me slow down. I was thinking earlier, Sarah, about your devotion to the pause and that I might hear that. But to really integrate that into my body. The pause. I'm still working on it, but, yeah, just the way that you allow that information to be woven into. To my body or you're a catalyst for how that information weaves into my body.
Ginny Gill [00:53:04]:
It really. It's been very impactful for me. Yeah, Hugely impactful.
Sarah Tacy [00:53:10]:
I've never heard anyone say my. My devotion to the pause. If there's one nervous system tool that I would highlight above all the rest, it would be the pause. And I know my devotion to the.
Ginny Gill [00:53:21]:
Pause, but I've never had that reflected back to me. Oh, yeah.
Sarah Tacy [00:53:25]:
I get to be a devotional student to the pause. I love that. That is actually a part of every meditation, isn't it? There's like a pause, and then there is also a place, I think, for our wins at some point during, too, just to keep, like, working the reticular activating system to notice those. And I noticed that. And I think this was already part of your practice, not because of resource, but I noticed that you are pretty good at when you reflect on things, being like, you know, I'm really proud of myself for that thing. I really noticed that. And so I think that's. I think that's a beautiful thing that often isn't taught to us, you know, especially in the line of, like, be humble or just, like, always noticing all that's wrong.
Sarah Tacy [00:54:04]:
To actually notice the wins along the way is so monumental.
Ginny Gill [00:54:09]:
Yeah. Yeah. And again, I think it all just starts with, like, small steps, like journaling and writing down the things that I'm celebrating. And then that just gets integrated over time. And I think, again, going back to the pause, like, I can know on a mental level that pausing is really freaking great. I can start to, you know, pause when things are sort of lower stakes. But the eventuality of the pause not needing to be something that I'm bringing into my awareness for it to happen feels like a huge shift. So, again, thank you.
Ginny Gill [00:54:46]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah Tacy [00:54:47]:
Now this is time to close. I'm gonna.
Ginny Gill [00:54:48]:
Yes.
Sarah Tacy [00:54:48]:
And I have just. This is. I feel like what I'm also hearing so much of is, like, when you say, like, you do the sabbatical, it shows somebody else. This is possible when you didn't go in the ocean shows like, you're doing it for yourself, but it also might be inspiration for somebody else who's there. Like, oh, you know, like, you just get to see, like, oh, it's not like we all have to go together or we don't go at all or whatever, you know? And I was at Sarah Jenks's council, and whenever they'd ask me questions, I didn't do it on purpose, but apparently I'd put my hands together and kind of, like, tuck my chin a little bit and take a breath and wait for something that felt true to arise. And somebody in there, she was like, so I didn't. I didn't know that I'd do this. And she said basically it was just one of those things of, like, wow, I wonder how often I'm answering on autopilot and what would happen if I just waited for a second to see, like, is that still true? Is that really what I want to say? And I know a lot of people are verbal processors, so I'm not taking away from that either.
Sarah Tacy [00:55:54]:
But I do think that you can be a verbal processor and that the. If I'm going to be my little devotional steplier, like, my platform is that then the body gets to come along with it a little bit. Like, we can still, you know, whether you're internal processor or external, I do think that it can help our body just. Okay, I'm here on part of it, too.
Ginny Gill [00:56:15]:
Yeah. I'm an external processor, so. Oh, you are.
Sarah Tacy [00:56:18]:
Yes, you are.
Ginny Gill [00:56:19]:
Mm.
Sarah Tacy [00:56:21]:
You are. Oh, my God. You're gonna have to tell me all. Well, if you don't mind, I would love to hear all about it in the future of how those two integrate. I'm, like, researching this right now with a few friends who are like, yeah, but I process through movement. I'm like, right. That makes so much sense. And do these two things still support each other? So I'm all right.
Sarah Tacy [00:56:44]:
Can't pause. Just noticing my feet and my seat and this moment. Thank you so much for being here, Ginny. We will put your links to social media, your website. I will put all of that in the show notes. Ginny is an incredible space holder. A really, really incredible space holder. She is a talented breathwork practitioner.
Sarah Tacy [00:57:13]:
But I think for me, what makes the most potent breathwork practitioners is really the space and they bold. And that is just something that I would say has been part of your journey for a very long time, but would be something that you. I would say if there's something that you're devoted to, a lot of that, to me, seems like the sacred space.
Ginny Gill [00:57:35]:
Thank you, Sarah. Thank you.
Sarah Tacy [00:57:38]:
All right, well, thanks for being here. Thank you for sharing.
Ginny Gill [00:57:41]:
I've loved it. Thanks so much.
Sarah Tacy [00:57:53]:
Thank you for tuning in. It's been such a pleasure. If you're looking for added support, I'm offering a program that's totally free called 21 Days of Untapped Support. It's pretty awesome. It's very easy. It's very helpful. You can find it@saratacy.com and if you love this episode, please subscribe. And, like, apparently it's wildly useful, so we could just explore what happens when you scroll down to the bottom.
Sarah Tacy [00:58:24]:
Subscribe rate, maybe say a thing or two. If you're not feeling it, don't do it. It's totally fine. I look forward to gathering with you again. Thank you.