046 - Jeannine Yoder: Saying Yes to Confusion
Welcome back, dear ones. I’m delighted to share today’s conversation with you. I’m talking with my friend and “coaches’ coach,” Jeannine Yoder aka Jey.
Together, we explore the power of confusion as a catalyst for personal growth and transformation. Jey also shares her journey of navigating success, motherhood, and creativity, shedding light on the significance of embracing uncertainty and following intuition.
Join us as we uncover the profound insights and experiences that challenge the traditional notion of clarity and reveal the transformative potential of confusion.
Tune in as we discuss:
Jey’s unique journey into coaching
The invaluable nature of cover crops
Finding and embracing the sacred third
Opening up to receiving
Finding purpose and joy outside of struggle
Connect with Sarah:
Email Sarah at sarahtacy@gmail.com
Connect with Jeannine (Jey):
Episode Transcript
Sarah Tacy [00:00:00]
Are you ready to increase your capacity to be with life's challenges while having the clarity, will and skill to step into the fullness of what truly brings you alive? I'd love to invite you to join me in an incredible 3 month container where I'll be your guide and we'll do a mix of one-on-one sessions and group experiences. Because my understanding and experience is that much of healing happens in the presence of another, and that relational healing is part of it. So that group integration could be a pretty big deal in helping us to make our pattern shifts. Here's what some people are saying or have said.
Sarah Tacy [00:00:42]
I healed my deepest wounds and have come out the other side feeling whole in ways I never thought possible. Another testimonial. I've experienced a deep, visceral change that neither looks nor feels like anything I have felt before. Every session is an affirmation. Working with Sarah will help you feel at home and finally at ease within your body and your life again.
Sarah Tacy [00:01:08]
If you'd like to join us, please reach out to me at myemailsarahtacy@gmail.com. It'll be in the show notes. The group sessions start January 9th and meet one Tuesday a month, the 9th, the 6th, the 5th and the 2nd, generally happening at 12:00 PM EST. Currently the price is 1275, which is 20% off the valued price. If you'd love to receive any more details again, sarahtacy@gmail.com and I would just say if it feels like it's calling to you, come join us for this journey of self discovery, healing and transformation where we might just unlock some pretty profound revelations and pattern shifts.
Sarah Tacy [00:01:59]
Hello, welcome. I'm Sarah Tacy and this is Threshold Moments, the podcast where guests and I share stories about the process of updating into truer versions of ourselves. The path is unknown and the whole feels real. Together we share our grief, laughter, love and life saving tools. Join us.
Sarah Tacy [00:02:33]
Hello and welcome to Threshold Moments. This morning I got to sit down with Janine Yoder and man, I think she and I just walk such parallel paths. And so it's really good medicine for me to get to be witnessed, witnessed to someone else who has been walking her path for such a long time. She takes us all the way back to being an 8 year old attending NA for and with her parents who had a narcotics addiction and were going through their healing process. And being in a room with people who were talking about their rock bottom and their tools that they were using and being in community.
Sarah Tacy [00:03:28]
And her time she spent as an actress and making the decision to move from being an actress to being a life coach and having to really tune into what are the things she desires most in life. And how do you take two things that feel like an opposition? Like the freedom that I want for my creativity to be the peak of my work in life, but also work that has freedom in schedule and time and location where it seems like the two things can't be real. And finding that sacred third. So we talked quite a bit about the sacred third.
Sarah Tacy [00:04:10]
We also talked quite a bit about the stage of confusion where instead of just seeing the most powerful stage in a cycle to be that stage of clarity that that would be where the power is to begin to really lean into the bravery of saying yes to confusion. She and I had similar experiences of being primary breadwinners and doing a flip flop with our partners. And we talked about the vulnerability of receiving. And it may sound wild and it may seem like a privilege and I could say it is. And I can tell you that there's so much more comfort in my nervous system often of just like if I can do it, if I'm, if I'm making the money, if every part of my effort matches the amount coming in or something like that.
Sarah Tacy [00:05:06]
The vulnerability to receive. And then we both talk about, and I have to say it was super vulnerable to have this conversation live that it's going to be heard. I don't feel my strongest when I say these things out loud, but it is certainly true for my path, which is moving from places and stages where I've received validation and worth from the outside and learning over these years to source it from within. But the fact that every now and then, it's like, have I learned the lesson yet? Do I get to have the validation from SI 2, but to really be in a place and the practice over and over again to find that validation from within.
Sarah Tacy [00:05:51]
And lastly, we briefly touch on the power of Breath Work, which is a program that she is currently offering, a program that I have participated in and will continue to participate in in January. So I just hope you enjoy the honesty, the vulnerability and the depth of wisdom with which Janine shares from. Thank you. Welcome to Threshold Moments. Today we have with us Janine Yoder.
Sarah Tacy [00:06:32] I'm going to read her official bio 1st and then we'll do some unofficial less formal communing. Janine is a New York Times featured feminine leadership and business coach, healer, mom, Broadway artist and Co founder, CEO of Mentor Master Class, an all in life coach training school for women. Janine works intimately with women who are bored and burnt out by the current success strategies that are being taught and who are ready to take ownership of their life. When you're ready to lead from a place of an emergent, abundant and self loving strategy, Jay is the coach you want by your side. I want like later in this podcast to talk about the words emergent, abundant, and self loving.
Sarah Tacy [00:07:33]
Her signature RSVP method and body dance classes and breathwork workshops have helped thousands of clients deeply understand the principles of embodiment and how to create a beautiful life, sharing their gifts and passions with others. Jay is currently offering a breathwork series starting this January, which we'll get into later in the interview as well. I've had the great fortune of joining her in her last series and I have been deeply moved and in awe of what can happen in a one hour session. You know, maybe it's like 40 minutes of breathing. Just the insights, the connection to ancestors, to things that aren't serving me.
Sarah Tacy [00:08:26]
I've been doing breath work in various ways for 20 years and sitting with you and experiencing you has been such an honor. And I was just like, I just want more of this in my life. And the idea that I could do it on a weekly basis is so cool. So I get to.
Jeannine Yoder [00:08:46]
Do it with you on a weekly basis. It's so cool to me too.
Sarah Tacy [00:08:50]
Cool. So welcome. Thank you for coming. Janine and I first met at Kate Northrop's 40th birthday. The celebration started out with a smaller number of women where we did a spa day and I knew everybody on the list that was, I think they're only like 5 of us maybe.
Sarah Tacy [00:09:13]
So I knew everyone, but I didn't know you. So I did like a little research and like who is this chick? How do I not know her? How is this possible? It was so beautiful spending the day with you.
Sarah Tacy [00:09:27]
And I'm going to just mention something that I appreciate you, which is the next day while getting ready, I was feeling sexier than I have ever felt. I had this really gorgeous red dress on like showed off my legs in the front was flowy in the back. It was so good. It was so sexy. I felt so sexy and.
Jeannine Yoder [00:09:49]
With this episode, you need to post a picture of yourself in that dress.
Sarah Tacy [00:09:53]
Just I will just like walking in it just but you were like that friend who and I like and we're again, we're just meeting like you were the only one in the room who is like, Hey, you look great. And I can totally see your underwear line. It doesn't really matter. And it's kind of like having a friend who's going to tell you like, you have spinach in your teeth, and then you help me find a solution.
Jeannine Yoder [00:10:19]
I just gave you my undies. I.
Sarah Tacy [00:10:21]
Didn't know if it was OK for me to say that.
Jeannine Yoder [00:10:23]
Yes, that's why I.
Sarah Tacy [00:10:25]
Immediately felt like there's that saying he would give you the shirt off his back and I'm like, and not that these came off your body, they were clean like not that that would make them not clean, but just.
Jeannine Yoder [00:10:37]
Kidding. No, they weren't.
Sarah Tacy [00:10:42]
They weren't, And you helped fix the problem. Like, I went down to your room and I'm just like this woman. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. It just like touched my heart in a way that I can't quite describe.
Sarah Tacy [00:10:54]
And since when we've then we've had a few, a few more times to hang out and, and every time I'm with you, I just so deeply appreciate you. So now I'm going to rewind to the original part, which is I started doing a little research and I see that you are an actress and also that you had a lot of early success in life coaching. And I'm wondering if you can walk us back to who you were in your 20s as a life coach, like how you got into it and what it was like to be in your 20s guiding people.
Jeannine Yoder [00:11:34]
Yeah, well, I think I was about 23 when I really discovered. I mean, I always knew about personal development tools, like I think like my favorite books as a child were like Chicken Soup for the teenage Soul because it was like real stories about healing and honest emotions and a lot of stories about girls from what I remember and that kind of passion, I was well, also, I grew up, both my parents were drug addicts and always in recovery. So I grew up in NA meetings, Narcotics Anonymous meetings where I would be listening to not only my father and mother, but all of these other humans who became their community, the community that helped them change their identity from being addicts to like healing themselves and their lives. And I started going into those rooms around, you know, 8 years old and grew up in those rooms where people would be telling their rock bottom stories. And then where, you know, my father, I remember, would have different roles at different meetings, Like he would be treasurer of a meeting or secretary of a meeting, or he would be a sponsor to someone else.
Jeannine Yoder [00:12:55]
Once he had been in recovery for a long time, I watched him kind of more from the beginner addict into like the mentor space holder while he was always progressively still healing and working on his own identity as an addict and a recovering addict. And you know, they would read books and scriptures and they would have tools and techniques. So I think that was my first introduction to what later in life when I was living in New York City as a performer and really reaching. I just graduated school at and of the American Musical Dramatic Academy and was heavily pursuing a career in the arts on Broadway and tours and things, and really quickly started to see that that life didn't offer a lot of freedom. So even though I was only 23, I recognized mostly through this.
Jeannine Yoder [00:13:50]
I remember the moment it hit me, I was in callbacks for a Broadway musical and I was falling in love with my now husband Brent and I had. I was just like full on honeymoon phase with him, just like wanted to spend every second with him and never felt that way before. Also, I was like the starving artist and he at the time represented a successful career to me like financial stability, which I had never known. And he was had a corporate card at the time and was leaving in the winter to go to Florida on this like epic trip at an amazing resort. And I wanted so badly to be with him and to go and have this beautiful experience.
Jeannine Yoder [00:14:33]
But I had this call back for the show, which I was also very excited about. But the reality of the career in acting is that you don't have a lot of control over your success. It really falls a lot behind the politics, the relationships that, you know, a lot of the times you could be the more talented one for the role, but if you don't fit the costume that they already have designed, they're looking for that person that is that exact size. And so there's just no, you don't have a lot of say. You can be doing your best work and really showing up and still just never know when you're going to get hired.
Jeannine Yoder [00:15:09]
And that was hard for me and my personality, even though, you know, one side of my personality is like freedom and artistry and creativity and like really wanting to have a career that is an expression of your soul. And the other part was like also wanting to have the freedom and safety net in your life too. I knew I wanted to be a mother someday and I just I wanted to be able to be time and location free, which that job did not provide. So Long story short, I did the call back, missed the trip with, you know, my love, we're in this, we're in this honeymoon phase. I'm freezing in New York City and he's off in his, you know, boxers and no boxers but his bathing suit and the Florida Keys.
Jeannine Yoder [00:15:58]
And I didn't get the part. You know, I, I stayed and I pursued it and I gave it all I got and I didn't get the part. And it really just had me question like, is there a career where I can have both? Can I be creative and expressive and also have time and location and financial freedom? Can I have more say in my journey?
Jeannine Yoder [00:16:18]
And then I realized, I don't know how I bumped into it, but like started to hear about the career of coaching. And I thought, this can be a career. Like, this is just what I do. I am all of my friends coach. I'm grown up in this way.
Jeannine Yoder [00:16:36]
Like this is like even theater. It's like, this is what I do on the stage. I tell stories that connect with people and help them reimagine what's possible in their lives. So when I found coaching as a career, I just knew. It was like my whole body lit up.
Jeannine Yoder [00:16:52]
I was like, oh, this is the thing where I can be all parts of myself and then also create some safety and security and freedom, which it's something I didn't have in childhood and something I always wanted. I wanted to really have a successful life. At the time that meant something different than it does now. At the time, at 23, I wanted financial security and freedom and I wanted to know that I could create that for myself, but not at the cost of my expressive creativity. So entrepreneurship to me was the door and the fact that it could be a career where you were giving back and actually healing others.
Jeannine Yoder [00:17:31]
I was like, I hit the mother lode that.
Sarah Tacy [00:17:35]
As I imagined you as an 8 year old in NAI, did the math, created math, but I think that would put you in like 15 years of mentorship and lived experience of seeing ways to be with people at rock bottom, to hold space to and like, yeah, and to see the tools. So when I was like, wow, like this really successful life coach so early, you weren't starting at step one when you started studying life coaching, you had 15 years in the bank. I was blessed and honored to go with a friend for two years when he got his medallion for sobriety. And so just two times I was able to be in the room. And at that time I'd been teaching yoga for somewhere between like 10 and 15 years, and I had never seen such honesty.
Sarah Tacy [00:18:40]
And also to see a room where nobody would then stand up and say, oh, this is what you should do to fix it. That like people just held space for people to share their exact experience. I saw so much health and I also wondered what would the world be like if we were all this honest and if there were containers where it was safe enough to be this honest. And I can only imagine if you had constant exposure to something like that. And then in the realm of acting, I noticed both in the yoga world and actually in a lot in the self help world, a lot of people who become successful also have a background in being on stage.
Sarah Tacy [00:19:33]
And there's something about being able to channel because you can't just go like, it's not just the script, it's not just the tools. There's like some sort of life force that has to channel through and some way of connecting and using words that touch people that aren't like over someone's head. But it's like, you know, in storytelling. So the combination that you had, it just makes so much sense. And I love what you were saying.
Sarah Tacy [00:20:04]
I could hear the possibility of a double bind of. My art is my freedom. My freedom keeps me bound that some people with that's called the double bind. And when you can open those two things up and look for the sacred 3rd that you were able to find that sacred 3rd through the entrepreneurship of oh, I can still have all parts of me and actually they can be amplified in this way. Really beautiful.
Jeannine Yoder [00:20:33]
I love that you put that together. Thank you for bringing that. The Sacred Third has been a big teacher for me because in healing trauma, I really learned that when you are in a trauma response, it's usually all or nothing. And I very much lived so much of my life that way. It's like black or white all or nothing thinking.
Jeannine Yoder [00:20:55]
And it took a lot of conscious remembering and studying and talking about the sacred 3rd and rewiring my brain and teaching myself to be someone who considers acting from that potential choice. Not just like black or white all in mm Hmm. And to recognize that the all in thinking is a trauma response because really I related to it as well. A survival technique that did and was did work at certain periods of my life, but was no longer necessary once I was actually safe.
Sarah Tacy [00:21:34]
And the wild thing is like the way it could take away from our creativity and potential. One of our first, one of our first things that we're born with is awe and wonder. It's considered a reflex, the way like a baby might like open their eyes and look around. That we start with awe and wonder and that overtime drama and training may take that away. And the sacred third often comes through curiosity and tuning back into awe and wonder.
Jeannine Yoder [00:22:07]
An intuition like The Sixth Sense where so funny that we're going in this direction because I was writing all morning. I became like, just was like, I don't know, probably intuition leading up to our conversation of like what wants to move through in this conversation? And I really was like, I'm really curious about our DNA and how does it actually work? And what is the difference between like our programming and intuition? And why am I so drawn to intuition at this time in our life?
Jeannine Yoder [00:22:37]
So I started reading a bunch about the difference between mammals and us as babies versus like certain things like squirrels, who their kind of neuroplasticity and DNA is like reactive and encoded, but there's so they can just know things and repeat them like they have the muscular structure to run up a tree. But the difference with mammals and humans is like our neuroplasticity is our ability to reorganize itself by reforming new neural connections. And we're different in that babies really can't survive on their own. They need their mothers, unlike some, you know, animals and insects and things like we're just primed to go on their own. But that also what's beautiful about that is that we have the freedom to explore and expand.
Jeannine Yoder [00:23:26]
Our brains are so amazing and we're all so unique and different because of that. But what's hard about it is that we really are formed by what we see and learn, and our brains form around that. So I was even reading about like a baby who's not blind. If from birth you cover their eyes for the first year or two, they will become blind. They will learn their brain will form and function around not seeing even though they actually can see.
Jeannine Yoder [00:23:59]
And so this is where like intuition and the sacred 3rd for example, and are teaching ourselves that it exists or changing our environment or being around different things can actually help us discover that we are not stuck. We are not set in a serpent identity or a certain career or option. Like if you have that ability to say like what if or what else or this is possible and then you look for it, you can actually train yourself and change your brain. So I was reading all about the science of it this morning. So.
Sarah Tacy [00:24:32]
I'm like, I so want to get good on this. Maybe I can, maybe we can for a moment because one of my earliest episodes is about the reticular activating system in the brain stem, which it's like everything that you see and do everyday. It's not going to put it up to the conscious, like it doesn't become conscious. It's just running on an unconscious cycle. So something is really new and big and exciting.
Sarah Tacy [00:24:56]
You might notice it, but otherwise you could have an answer to your problem directly in front of you, but you won't see it because maybe it's always been there. I'm going to get to the power of asking questions from here in a second. But going back to the idea that if someone had an experience of being blind early on, that they would continue to experience that all the way through, what I've learned about the nervous system is that the earlier the imprint, the more impossible and unrealistic it seems as an adult that there could be any other way. Like it could seem impossible that a relationship could be safe. It could seem impossible that you could have wealth and that it's not connected to suffering.
Sarah Tacy [00:25:48]
You have to say, right, Like, because it may be all you've ever seen. And for someone to say that it's different, it's literally like there are sometimes that I, I'll like, like, you know, Bridget Bixon's uses the phrase show me. So this goes back to reticular formation. Like, show me an example of somebody who has built a life where they have financial stability or abundance and they seem happy and have freedom. Like, you have to start almost like, start looking for examples because it will seem impossible.
Sarah Tacy [00:26:20]
And another thing that I used is this idea of holding a vision. And so I've asked a friend when I was like from a pretty dark place, like, hey, can you hold the vision for me? Like, can you help me see a vision for myself that I can't see? And so she wrote me a letter. Well, she said it out loud.
Sarah Tacy [00:26:38]
And I was like, can you put that in writing?
Jeannine Yoder [00:26:40]
That's beautiful, Sarah, We all see that. Can we all just make, we all hold that we'll do that? Because who couldn't grow from that in some way in their life right now to receive that from a conscious sister?
Sarah Tacy [00:26:56]
Conscious sister. Yeah. Like somebody that you hold dear. Somebody who you know, who holds you dear, Who holds you dear. Yeah, we'll move on to motherhood.
Sarah Tacy [00:27:07]
But I also, I want to stay here for one more moment because now I'm remembering that when I did first look you up, yes, there was, There was I.
Jeannine Yoder [00:27:16]
Feel like we were like dating. It's like we know now when you, you know, when you have certain groups of friends and you just trust them so much. So you know, if they're going to introduce you to someone else in that circle that you're probably going to fall in love. So then you're like, who is this person? Who have they dated before me?
Jeannine Yoder [00:27:31]
What are they like? I just couldn't believe that. I'm like, I couldn't.
Sarah Tacy [00:27:37]
Believe that like I'm like, I can't believe like how do I not know this for so there was a clip where you were talking.
Jeannine Yoder [00:27:42]
About the way I haven't said it by but I did the same thing I went.
Sarah Tacy [00:27:45]
Oh, you did, Yes. Feel so honored. Yeah. There was a clip where you were talking about the power of confusion. And this spoke to my soul in such a deep way because over and over again, I hear about the power of clarity.
Sarah Tacy [00:28:07]
Clarity is power, and I see that and I understand it, and I can understand the focus momentum that comes when clarity is finally when clarity finally arrives. And in the cycle of awareness, there's this whole half of the cycle where there's an interruption of the norm, where there's chaos and confusion and the fertile void. And if one were to only know that having clarity is a way to have power or that clarity is the only is like the end game, it could be super disempowering and really like, Oh my God. So I've said in the past that like if clarity is power, then confusion is potential. Confusion is where we're like, where is, I don't know, the sacred third yet.
Sarah Tacy [00:29:00]
And it's not necessarily comfortable where clarity can feel way more comfortable. And you said something to the point in that clip too of the potency of that stage. And I'm wondering if you could say a thing or two about your perspective of being in a place before the clarity?
Jeannine Yoder [00:29:21]
This is so divinely orchestrated actually, when you were like, do you want to come on the podcast and you're like, I think I might like to talk about confusion. And, and literally the day that you text me that I was struggling so hard and so frustrated by the fact that I'm in a state of confusion right now. And you saying that reminded me of all these things that I know about confusion that I've studied that I've coached literally thousands of women through in my program mentor master class. I had a whole module on how teaching women how to coach, understanding how we form our identities, and then how if we want to change what that looks like, which involves going through an identity moratorium. It's called where you go through an identity crisis where you don't know who you are.
Jeannine Yoder [00:30:14]
And that's just part of the stage of being able to reform and become something different like you. You can't, you cannot make a change without becoming confused, essentially. And if you're not willing to go all the way into that crisis, then you'll never make it out fully changed. In some ways you'll just reform to your initial habits and patterns and you'll stay stuck. Maybe like an elevated version of stuck, but not like the full shifts.
Jeannine Yoder [00:30:41]
And I think that for right reasons, we avoid it because it is an identity crisis and you're a **** show for a while. And it's actually really hard to show up in life. So if you don't have the privilege of some safety and security around you, you probably can't really fully go into that crisis because you have to get food on the table and you have to be stable for your children. I'm not saying you have to like lose your **** and go in an insane asylum, but it could feel like that. And it does to me when I, and I think also because of exactly what you're speaking to, that it's clarity is glorified.
Jeannine Yoder [00:31:19]
And you know, the definition of insanity is someone who you can't rely on. So we really want to present ourselves as clear and reliable and predictable. And when you're in confusion, you're none of those things I wrote. I actually wrote a little bit about it. Like I just had like a stream of consciousness, like what do I want to remember about confusion?
Jeannine Yoder [00:31:40]
Because and since that moment, by the way of you reminding me, I felt so empowered in my confusion. And so I'm glad we're talking about this because it is exactly what you said. If we don't view and believe that our confusion is worthy and valuable, we'll never trust it full enough to go into it, to reap the most incredible rewards that are on the other side. And I've been through it before. This is what happened to me back when I shifted from theater to coaching.
Jeannine Yoder [00:32:09]
That was a massive identity crisis because my whole life I only wanted to be a Broadway star. And I put all my money and effort and training into theater. So shifting careers at a moment where I was living in New York, actually gaining success in that career, it felt crazy like you're going to you're going to tear all this down based off kind of an intuitive thought or a desire of what else you want. Like just keep what you have and keep going. Like, how could you dare start over?
Jeannine Yoder [00:32:36]
And then I've just done the same thing two years ago. Even though I love my career as coaching and it's been so successful and it's given me everything I ever wanted. I intuitively felt like the next version of me has to let this go in order to like reorganize and re pattern who I am. Because I got very stuck in the identity of the successful girl boss driven entrepreneur. And my ego is super attached to that.
Jeannine Yoder [00:33:04]
But I was kind of feeling like, oh, I'm going to go through this again. So I did it again. And right now it's gone on longer than I thought. Like the switch from theater to coaching was like quick. I had instant success.
Jeannine Yoder [00:33:16]
I was on the cover of The New York Times the first year in my coaching business. So I got reward for the switch right away. It was like, oh, this was a smart switch. Like I'm already getting to get into the new identity quick. And it's rewarding and making sense.
Jeannine Yoder [00:33:31]
Like, go me by the way that article was called Should a Life Coach Have a Life 1st? And it was so frustrating at the time because it's everything you mentioned was like, how could you be young and actually have any skills? And it's like, why do we judge people by their age? You have no idea what my life experience has brought. So it was like a beautiful entry point based off what you said that put the lit of fire under my *** to prove that young women should not be identified by external circumstances because we have no idea what skills and talents and experienced people are bringing.
Jeannine Yoder [00:34:04]
And anyway, so to the embracing confusion part, I'm about two years into my sabbatical and I've still kept a lot of parts of coaching, but really let go of what I thought my life was going to be moving forward in order to discover what it really wants to be. And I don't have answers yet fully. I don't know when, when my girlfriends who are successful entrepreneurs ask me like, are you coming back? What are you going to launch yet? What do you?
Jeannine Yoder [00:34:33]
I want to have an answer so bad because it's so uncomfortable not to know. I've been asked to stay in this confusion for so long and so you reminding me to, I think I was going into a bit of a victim state around it just based off messaging and conditioning around me that clarity is good and confusion is stuckness and I just don't believe that in this moment. I'm super empowered and excited by the thought of what confusion is. So I'm going to share this with everyone listening that I wrote. So in times of confusion, it's essential to recognize the value that confusion brings to personal growth.
Jeannine Yoder [00:35:10]
Because according to years of study of NLP, which is neuro linguistics, programming the wiring of our brains and then studying identity moratorium principles. So the ideas like how we form identities from a young age and why moments of confusion really act as gateways to new possibilities. It's exactly what you said, because confusion signals a period where our existing mental models are being challenged, and it's creating an opening for transformative change. And during these times, our brains enter what psychologists call an identity moratorium, and it's a state where the usual beliefs and patterns are questions. And Gee also said questioning.
Sarah Tacy [00:35:53]
I'm just the fault my whole body is just vibrating over your sausages. Yeah. Whoa.
Jeannine Yoder [00:35:57]
This state of confusion is not a set back, rather it's an opportunity to decondition ourselves from old limiting beliefs and it allows us to re evaluate who we are, paving the way for a renewed relationship with ourselves and our approach to life. And confusion is not a sign of weakness. It's a signal that we're on the cusp of growth. And it invites us to explore new perspectives and make decisions about who we want to become and forge a new path that aligns more closely with our authentic selves. Because oftentimes we just resort to conditioning around us.
Jeannine Yoder [00:36:39]
And we really attached to that. And it's hard. It takes a lot of conscious awareness to say, but who am I really and what do I really want? And what would that look like in the form of showing up in a repetitive way or not? For me, it's all about not being repetitive, like being more unpredictable and trying different things on.
Jeannine Yoder [00:37:02]
So as empowered spiritual women, those of you who are entrepreneurs, mothers, embracing moments of confusion becomes a powerful tool for shedding old conditioning and making room for innovation and creating a more fulfilling and purpose driven life. So if you are confused like me, I hope we can just feel like this is great, this is good, I am safe, I am worthy, I'm powerful. That I'm maybe more powerful in my confusion than in my clarity. Actually braver for sure.
Sarah Tacy [00:37:38]
Braver for sure. I want to say a few things here, which PO Hung Yu was on the podcast that I think will come out before this one, and she was talking about being in the cycle of in the place. I guess I named it as being in the place of chaos and confusion in the cycle of awareness for 20 years. 20 years.
Jeannine Yoder [00:38:00]
I want to hang out with her. She's ******* brave. She's.
Sarah Tacy [00:38:03]
******* brave. But I think when you're when you're in that cycle, there's sometimes where it feels like without a choice, like in that place in the cycle, you're using all the tools you know to use, you're doing all the things you know to do, but they're not working for you in the way that they may have before. Like the tools stop working and you're just.
Jeannine Yoder [00:38:24]
Stop working. And that's the hardest part because you're just like flipping over rocks like I guess I'll try this one. I guess I'll try this one.
Sarah Tacy [00:38:33]
Totally. And then I would say that I've been in my own version of like I like there's some parts of the cycles are better repeating themselves. But I think since becoming a mom, like that's now eight years ago where I had so much success.
Jeannine Yoder [00:38:55]
They're both eight, yeah.
Sarah Tacy [00:38:57]
It's so much success in the way I felt I did in my early career. And I'd say like, oh, I've changed lives. I've helped people do XY and Z and it felt so good. And I did it my own way and I created my own trainings and I was living the life I wanted to live. And then I had this like, OK, I've done it.
Sarah Tacy [00:39:18]
I've done it. And I close that chapter.
Jeannine Yoder [00:39:22]
So how old were are we the same age as well? So probably about the same age. I'm 41, OK, yeah, I'm going to be 40. So that's like a young success too. Like I, I don't know if it felt like that for you, but for me, I was having the kind of success a lot of my friends were hoping to gain and I was hitting it around 2728.
Sarah Tacy [00:39:43]
Yes, and that felt really good for me. It felt but like, and before that and before that, I don't know if it was as clear like in the first year I did, but like there was a lot. There was a long period of time of like I maybe I should go back for my PhD. Like I really there. I've always kind of wanted the =worthiness badge that would come that would say, I see all the studies you've done, here's a degree to show it or just something that would like give me stability if I were to up and move to a different place where I'm not starting over.
Sarah Tacy [00:40:14]
But really, yeah, trying to find. Who am I now? What is my outlet now? I, I tried teaching some yoga classes again last year and I was like, I can so easily do this. But no, you know, like still trying to find like the format and the formula of, of who I am to be now.
Sarah Tacy [00:40:34]
And so to, to sustain in a place where clarity isn't 100%. I feel like the vision is forming now, but it's not 100% there. It's so different than being in the place where you feel like, well, I'll speak for myself where I feel powerful and I feel clear and I'm like, I'm really ******* good at this and like, I can really, you know?
Jeannine Yoder [00:40:56]
Plus people respond to that. So this is the deconditioning, right? It's like to live in this space, but exist in a world where even when we have, even though I know all this and I'm going through it for myself, I still fall prey to like if I'm hanging out with my one of my friends and she's like, oh, I'm going to be on the Today show next week. I'm like, I'm like, oh, that's a mate. Like something in me wants to respond to that.
Jeannine Yoder [00:41:22]
Like it's so it's so it's so like layered. It's like that is an accolade that externally a greater part of society views as things are going right, for example. But deep down I know that means nothing. I know from behind the scenes of a business, for example, that like being on a show like that doesn't always move the needle forward or, you know, but it's like, why then if I have a friend who I'm like, well, what are you up to? And she's like, I have no idea.
Jeannine Yoder [00:41:51]
I'm trying this thing. I'm not sure. Like I celebrate that when I consciously think about it, but my initial conditioning is also to be like, you know what I mean? It's just like so much deconditioning of ourselves. And then to not need to source any significance externally to be in that state and to know like my girlfriend might, if I'm in a group of our friends and one person is talking about a massive 6 figure launch or being on the Today show or whatever it is.
dJeannine Yoder [00:42:26]
And I what when it comes to me, my authentic expression is I don't know or exactly I'm trying these different things on, you know, I'm doing a lot of breath work and having these transcendent experiences that are amazing. Or I'm sitting next to the tree and breathing deeper than I ever have. And I talk to trees now. You know, it's like my version, but to not source that validation externally. From what is told is a whole new and layering.
Jeannine Yoder [00:43:00]
I wanted to add that and I hope it was an interruption, but if you could speak to that too, I think it'd be interesting to hear your experience.
Sarah Tacy [00:43:07]
I mean, I think this is something that you and I were talking about. Like, wouldn't it be fun to do like if we just had mics on when we're all together at dinner? And I think maybe you and I talked about this this last summer of that process. And I think early in in my yoga career too, there was that where I wanted people to know if they said like, what are you doing? I would say like, I'm a yoga teacher to professional athletes.
Sarah Tacy [00:43:32]
Like I had to really add that in to be like, but I'm like, I'm legit, you know, like I needed like, oh, I teach yoga anatomy trainings. Like I needed to add layers to like make sure people understood like there was some legitimacy. There's.
Jeannine Yoder [00:43:47]
Two parts, right? There's the part of you that needs that significance, but then there's the part that's true. The people react differently. You will see a different facial expression when you say I'm a yoga teacher versus I'm a yoga teacher to professional at Oh, like who you know, it's like it's different. So it is our relationship to significance as well, I think, and how we source love and connection, and how much of our love and connection is attributed to that vehicle of being seen and thought of as special and successful and smart and worthy.
Sarah Tacy [00:44:24]
I have definitely like asked the universe like when is it long enough that I have like been with finding my worthiness not based on outer success. And it would be interesting if the universe is like the rest of your life.
Jeannine Yoder [00:44:42]
Yeah. Well, you just said 20 years. I'm like, it's probably that for me because the longer I keep asking how long it's going to be, I think the more I'm like.
Sarah Tacy [00:44:49]
A little kid in the back of a car like we just started.
Jeannine Yoder [00:44:53]
You have another lesson yet. So. So when I try to pretend I get it, I totally get it. I don't need it. So is it time now?
Sarah Tacy [00:45:04]
What I have found, and I think I said this in my interview with Poe, and maybe it was on hers that I said this was I have made some of the most beautiful friendships in my life and since becoming a mom and I've had some pretty dark nights years. And I was saying too, that that saying that joy is magnetic, it was also a pretty painful thing for me and a time where I felt pretty far from joy. And what I think I have found is that presence and authenticity have been a real reward for me to be able to be in the presence of other authentic humans and that that's what I want most. And so although at times, because I do feel like so many of my friends are so successful, at times, I can do that. Like, oh, why are they hanging out with me?
Sarah Tacy [00:46:11]
Like I just feel so vulnerable to say that out loud. Like, why are they hanging out with me? Like I don't have this or that, but just like, oh, the gift of presence and authenticity and that I get to be in relationship with so many amazing women who are willing to be authentic and willing to be in the journey of coming back into their bodies and honoring their body and honoring their soul and coming into intuition. And I've gotten a million real life examples, lived examples, where my worth has not been valued on my external success.
Jeannine Yoder [00:46:53]
Way to prove it too, right? Like, how could you, how could we have known that if we weren't willing to unidentify with that, to prove that it's not what it's about? I, I had that too. I still have that. I still have like, well, all of my wise, brilliant, conscious, successful girlfriends will accept my sabbatical for a while.
Jeannine Yoder [00:47:18]
But like, at what? At what point will they be like, she is not one of us anymore? I guess she's also vulnerable to say. But the reality is that since when I walk into a room with a bunch of entrepreneurs, for example, and I'm not leading with a business launch or an idea or a hope for connections, like some of the more probably very unattractive parts of that driven part of my personality are gone because I walk in that room present really just wanting to connect. I have no idea that I'm trying to spread or like work.
Jeannine Yoder [00:47:57]
I'm trying to bring awareness to a brand I'm trying to stay aligned with or like networking opportunity I'm really hoping to have. I'm I've really more present and I feel in my body and I feel like I love myself and trust myself and I'm interested in in just me and life more than certain sets of goals or entrepreneurial accolades to meet you know, and it's like their friendships. I have had the experience for women in the room where I'm like, I would love to be friends with her, but I carried not what I have now. And so it didn't, it never happened. It was like awkward or I was trying too hard or probably my like graspiness was felt like those women are my best friends now and it's just authentic relationships, not built on anything other than love and appreciation for each other and like walking life together.
Jeannine Yoder [00:48:59]
So that was I, I don't know that I would have believed that to be true. I, I definitely had a different set of beliefs and neuro wiring that made me think otherwise. Like what it would take in order not only to have success, but to have like authentic amazing friendships with people who I can give to and receive from equally didn't come through all the ways that I thought I would win those relationships.
Sarah Tacy [00:49:30]
So beautiful. I'm thinking about this idea of how good medicine is reciprocal and if I could explain that a little further. I'll give a few examples. When I started going, I, I started going in ice water when I was a kid because my grandfather does it and does that. He's 95.
Sarah Tacy [00:49:55]
And, and in that process, perhaps introduce some people to the practice who it really made a difference in their life and they kept doing it. And then I went into this phase that was so hard in life that doing anything hard wasn't additive. And so it was like a two year break. And then I saw some of these women posting of going in and it just like reminded me because I kind of like completely forgot. So it reminded me of the medicine and I started doing it again, or it was the some of the women that I had introduced would invite me back in.
Sarah Tacy [00:50:35]
And so it was something I did for myself that trickled out to somebody else that when I forgot it, they reminded me of it. And, and I'm thinking about to just this conversation about confusion and where it's like, you know it, you've been practicing it for years. And, and I got to hear it at a time. I was like, so good to hear another woman talking about it and it's coming around. And then as you were talking about it through your lens just now that it reminded me at a deeper level.
Sarah Tacy [00:51:12]
And I can imagine for so many listeners, I imagine that we spend more of our life in a place of like, I could be wrong, possibly of confusion and maybe not, Maybe.
Jeannine Yoder [00:51:26]
I think when you become willing to experience it, but I, I, it's almost like you have to break in. You know, I think there are some people that will like, love certainty so much and, and truly there is some privilege involved. I have to say. Like if I didn't prove to myself, and like you said, if I didn't at 28 reach these goals of success, if I was still looking for those goals and hadn't reached them yet, I don't know that I could relax into the next evolution. It's like, I think we have to meet our basic needs first before where we can have the ability to unravel.
Jeannine Yoder [00:52:02]
And so if you reach a point of some kind of security and support enough either internally within yourself of trust or externally also in your needs, knowing that you'll be able to eat and provide for your children and have a roof over your head, then you can like enter where you're like, let's explore what it's like to, you know.
Sarah Tacy [00:52:23]
Ego dissolution. Yes, this small thing called the ego dissolution. In my interview with Kate Northrop, it's episode 5, she talks about cover crops and this idea that when we're in a place where we're really unsure of the next phase or what we're going to be your the idea of cover crops might be that we have some baseline skills that we're good at and it might not be Our Calling. And so for her, it was writing and promoting other people's programs. And so even though it wasn't sure, she wasn't like sure at the period was pardon and also post writing her last book, her previous book, what the next phase would be.
Sarah Tacy [00:53:08]
It's like, here are some cover crops that can assist me and then I can stick with along the way. I'm trying to think like, what are my and just, I guess I'm just even putting that out there where you said there's some privilege where it could be. Yeah. For some people, they might be able to completely like let a career go and have time to figure out the next thing and play with different things. And for others, it might be like, well, I need to keep putting food on the table and that there can be that.
Sarah Tacy [00:53:39]
Yeah. The cover crops of doing that while still being curious of what's next, what else is out there.
Jeannine Yoder [00:53:48]
That can be the thing though that keeps you not wanting to be confused because I told myself the story that I had to be the breadwinner in my partnership even though I had a fully capable husband. But in my mind, for many reasons of trauma growing up, I it was like it. I need to be the provider need. I wanted to be the provider. I was wrapped up in that role.
Jeannine Yoder [00:54:16]
And also I was not taught. I didn't have a mother and father who nurtured me and things weren't stable growing up. So for me, I really identified with like in order to survive, it has to be me. And I wasn't really good at receiving. I really wasn't taught to receive true nurturing.
Jeannine Yoder [00:54:37]
So I also didn't really know how to do it for myself either. So to really the this last iteration of like I'm going to be willing to be confused actually meant I have to heal. I have to heal these parts of me that don't know how to receive and that are identify with being the breadwinner as the only way to survive. And those beliefs at the time that I decided I was not going to launch the thing that was our most lucrative income. I'm not going to do my 6 figure launch of my program solely based off intuition by intuition saying this is not the time.
Jeannine Yoder [00:55:16]
You're not going to do that. You need space. You need to pull back and it. So I had to it. My crop cover, cover crop would have been like, I can trust myself to always create something and bring in money.
Jeannine Yoder [00:55:31]
Like I can create and it will bring in money. That's like a belief that I had. It's something I knew I could do. I'd proven it over and over again. The next level of healing was to be able to say, I can change the crop cover actually, because that that was like changing.
Jeannine Yoder [00:55:46]
What if instead I was able to say, I trust you, my partner. I would be willing to lay down my ego and my highest defense mechanism to say I passed the baton to you to be our breadwinner. Wow, what that took for me, I can't even tell you the struggle that that was on so many levels. But you know what happened? He became a ******* millionaire, literally, and I don't think he ever would have.
Jeannine Yoder [00:56:15]
If I didn't lay that down, I would have decided it had to be me. And what that did for our relationship, what that like, it was a struggle. And then you would think like, Oh my God, I have privilege actually, and financial security for the first time in my life, someone is holding that and I don't have to. You would think that would be joy. That was excruciating for me to like receipt, to learn to receive it and accept it and find joy in it.
Jeannine Yoder [00:56:42]
So I don't know that felt relevant to share because I, I just as you were talking and like, sometimes the thing that keeps us stuck is resorting to the same. I don't know if it's the same. I'll have to listen to the episode of Kate. But like, in a way, the things that I rely on to survive, I had to shift my belief around that. And it was a lot of healing work because it was deeply connected to like we talked as a baby.
Jeannine Yoder [00:57:05]
I was conditioned to believe that this is the environment and this is how I survive. And that was my natural responsive make up to it. But the next evolution of my life wants me to see that I can receive nurturing and love not only from myself, but from people in my life, from women and from my husband. And so then I have a chance of having a marriage that will work and being a mother that is like not in fight or flight and being a woman who knows how to nurture and be nurtured.
Sarah Tacy [00:57:42]
Yeah, we, I think we also had that similar. So when I gave up my business, it was the same time that Steve graduated from 7 years of dental school at Columbia and we moved to Maine. And I was like, I was like, I don't know. I was, I was totally following intuition. And then one night I'm folding the baby's clothes before she was actually here and my mom was across from me and I just started crying.
Sarah Tacy [00:58:05]
And she's like, what's happening? I was like, what did I do? I don't know anyone here. Most of it. Then really, what a huge thing to shift.
Sarah Tacy [00:58:18] Who's the breadwinner? What a huge, huge thing. And I want to say I've come a long way and I still know that there's a part of me that sources my worth. I having an external amount validate, say, like, you know, just to say, like energy is money is in exchange for energy. And you know, and so much of the mothering aspects go unseen.
Sarah Tacy [00:58:52]
This is a lot to say. I feel like I'm being quite a bit vulnerable on this podcast to say that, but that that has been a journey. And I think because it's a privilege, it's hard for me to say out loud.
Jeannine Yoder [00:59:06]
I am with you, but I think, but we're talking about conditioning too, right, Because it just I do think that they are seen as separate things. It's like I it's I stutter every time because it's just still. I'm working on the belief so much in myself that really wants to understand the power and strength and importance of mothering and nurturing and also our relationship to money and our relationship to partnership. And you know, those are all the things that I'm I, I really do feel like I have to walk so careful in this time. And I get why women would just stay busy.
Jeannine Yoder [00:59:54]
I get why women who are you know. Powerful and creative and wise I know that with their energy and their wisdom, they could make a big impact in the world. Get torn between like the devotion of their creative energy into the household and into their partnership and how that's kind of looked at as like a feminist type thing. Like it's like almost like, well, this is what we were trying to get away from to bring women's voices to leadership. But then this other part of us that's drawn to that, but also drawn to like a simple life where we, we really have joy and that we, we're looking for what that means.
Jeannine Yoder [01:00:34]
And I think that a lot of us who have young children know that the time is temporary and fleeting and that the impact we have mothering these children that become men and women in the world matters. And these years that they are in their formative years where they're forming their identities that we're talking about and we're influencing the natural patterns that they're going to have. He's so important. And so the balance of that and knowing what we want and who we are and being able to have joy in the process of that journey. And for you, like the most vulnerable part for me is to say I am getting and receiving support and security from someone in my life.
Jeannine Yoder [01:01:24]
It's to feel confident within. That is challenging because like you said, like it, I'm not. You said it earlier that, you know, like you could see another way, but you don't see it, you know, because of how you're conditioned. It's like to me, my compass that tells me on the right track is that I'm not relying on anybody and I am empowered and safe by my own means. So a big part of me really believes that.
Jeannine Yoder [01:01:51]
And then there's another part like I'm not being a leader or using my full range if I'm not like hustling and out there doing big things in the world. But there's this otherwise or intuitive part that came on board when I became a mother that was like, actually there's a beauty in life that I'm going to miss if I don't see what else is there and the other ways that I can be. And so I'm just willing to kind of not know what that's going to look like. And originally it was like all or nothing. It was like the trauma response was I'll just burn my whole business down then and be a stay at home mom.
Jeannine Yoder [01:02:31]
That's what it has to be. And then I learned it's not. There is a sacred 3rd and that sacred third is that I'm able to trust the gifts and receptivity and safety that is in my life. I don't have to perpetuate an old story. And then I can find my unique balance of what it looks like to be both what it looks like to like really Nestle into this nurturing, intuitive present part of motherhood that requires a bit more predictability and less like fight or flight hustle to like be present.
Jeannine Yoder [01:03:12]
And then I can also be, well, I'm going to pause. I wanted to share a story about like the difference between an orchid and a dandelion because I think it in nature really explains us beautifully. But like we can I can be the sacred third is like what would it look like to just be me and all of these and not over identify with one or the other all in.
Sarah Tacy [01:03:34]
I'm pausing here. Do you want to tell a story about a dandelion and an orchid?
Jeannine Yoder [01:03:38]
I did want to share it if there's time, but I wanted to get, I was wondering what was coming up for you. So I know you have such beautiful insides that if you had something you wanted to share before, I share that well.
Sarah Tacy [01:03:48]
I think I would probably take us, it's connected and take us into a different direction because I think somewhere in that sacred third, there's a part of me that wants to be like, right. And some women find this by keeping their career and they show their kids like, look, I this is like what I bring to the world and I'm here. Like, I can think of like a Kate Scutter who really like weaves all that in and does it in her own way that everybody has their own way of being a resourced woman or like having the goal of having a healed nervous system and showing it up. So just wanted to say that there are so many ways to do it. And then I'm thinking of the cover crop again because I'm thinking of the different ways it can show up.
Sarah Tacy [01:04:28]
And for me, sometimes that thought of, oh, and being a mom and being in my body and having a good, like a nervous system that's grounded should be enough. But that I've actually woken up like, I had an evening back in September where I went to bed, dinner was made for me. Like my kids were in a great place. My husband's doing well, everything is great. And again, like you said, shouldn't I be so happy right now?
Sarah Tacy [01:04:56]
But instead I had this really beige feeling of like, what is this all for? I'm not lit up. And I can say there were parts of my career that lit me up. And so I do think that some of that light up trying to differentiate of like, what is it of external validation? And what is it that's like our compass is saying yes, and you're in.
Sarah Tacy [01:05:18]
There's something about the zone of genius or something that turns us on or something about art and edge for me. And when I had that moment, I felt more committed to bringing more joy, like, instead of just like a regulated nervous system, like bringing more joy into my, like, what turns me on? And this idea of fast health, I had worked so hard to get comfortable with slow that I was like, OK, I'm going to take a mountain bike and something that's a little faster for my nervous system. And I thought about you and how you tried out for a play. And I really like in like that night that I had that thought.
Sarah Tacy [01:05:56]
I also thought about you and I thought about a step that you had taken. The way I saw it was like to remember a part of yourself and to feel some of that life. So that again, going back from the all or nothing thing is like, and how do we incorporate the parts that really light us up so that so that we don't have to like fall into the should and this should be it or this should be enough. And I'm wondering if you want to say anything about your decision to be in a play. And I actually haven't I my back, I threw at my back the day I was going to go to the day before I was supposed to go to Connecticut and watch you.
Sarah Tacy [01:06:35]
And I've never really gotten to hear what your experience was like. And I see that we're like so close to the end of time right now, but I don't know if you could say a thing or two.
Jeannine Yoder [01:06:45]
Yeah, I think that that inspiration came from trying, from really training, retraining and looking for the sacred third of things. Because again, the all or nothing when I found coaching was like, well, I leave theater and I become a coach. And it, I have just evolved to this understanding, like you said, like, OK, now I'm training my innate belief system to know that it's OK to receive support and to be in a balanced, you know, dynamic of like survival, but that that's the point of choosing to get married, you know, as you have a partner in life. And so for me, evolving into like, we're in this together and we can do this right? Of sometimes all lean in things so that he has more freedom to explore and expand and vice versa.
Jeannine Yoder [01:07:39]
And we support each other and like how much and same with sisterhood. So that is what led me same to just being like I am not fulfilled by not having work in the world. And I actually think that's true for most people like I, I, I forget the like science behind him. I've only heard it once, but I was listening to a podcast and they were talking about the highest rates of suicide are actually people who have are very successful and their survive is met, but they don't have a sense of purpose anymore. And so you do come to this very dark place of what is the point, even though you can see it in your children.
Jeannine Yoder [01:08:16]
And I've had those dark moments too. I've never been suicidal, but I've had some of the darkest moments in my life has have come at the safest, most secure like time in my life. I was actually more alive, more empowered during some of the most hardest, like not knowing how I was going to pay my rent, not having food on the table, eating tapa ramen every night, being single and lonely and in New York by myself, You know, like those things that you would think would make you feel dark. I felt darker with my bank account as well as it's ever been accolades galore of what I've succeeded in the most beautiful, healthy children, healthy in my body and then just going. But what is my purpose if I if I'm not struggling to survive?
Jeannine Yoder [01:09:03]
So then it really became like, how can I give myself permission to explore joy and love and pleasure, which feels like probably the point of choosing to be human? Like, what would that look like? And I just started asking that question, if I really was going to let myself feel and respond to joy, like, what would that be? And I thought I would love to perform again, like how to be able to perform not from the necessity of a career, not because it was my career choice and I needed to make money from it, but to do it back for the art and creativity. It was like, do I want to launch another coaching program?
Jeannine Yoder [01:09:45]
No, not at the moment. I really want to be in community creating art and serving the community. My community get to know people here around me through the art of performance is storytelling and this is manifestation. You know, I just put it out there was like, OK, it's meant to be. This is my new way to like being in flow.
Jeannine Yoder [01:10:06]
I'm trying to teach myself not to just be rigid and reverse engineer my goals like I used to. But like, what would it be? I would love to do a show like if it's meant to be, it will come in into my field let and then there's some action around that. It's like, OK, well, let me look at what are the local theaters. And I was like, OK, there's this one.
Jeannine Yoder [01:10:24]
It's 20 minutes away. OK, I'm going to get on their newsletter list. I'm going to look out for the emails when they talk about auditions. And I literally said to myself, what? Then I just asked what show would I love to do?
Jeannine Yoder [01:10:37]
Like, what if it could be any show? What part would I want to play at this moment in my life? And I was like, oh, Guys and Dolls is like my favorite show. That's a part I played before. I loved it.
Jeannine Yoder [01:10:47]
It's like the most aligned 1. If they do Guys and Dolls, I'll audition a month later. Of all the musicals it could have been, the e-mail comes through. It's like auditions for Guys and Dolls. I'm like, OK universe ************.
Jeannine Yoder [01:11:01]
So now I've got the audition. I said I wouldn't. And it's like that feeling came back, you know, I was like, how do I feel about this? Do I still want to do this? Because again, like my old way would be like reverse engineered.
Jeannine Yoder [01:11:13]
If you say you're going to do it, you do it, you power through at all costs. But instead it was like, do I want to do this? And my body was like, yes, we want to do this. This is amazing. How do we want to do this?
Jeannine Yoder [01:11:23]
Let's book a, let's book a voice lesson with our old voice teacher. We'll go into the city. And if you don't get the part, it's fine, like because you're just going to be in an audition room again. And so then I remembered that part. I had to redo my resume.
Jeannine Yoder [01:11:38]
I hadn't done a theater resume in 10 years. I hadn't had a part in 10 years. Showed up to the audition, felt all the layers of the healing of that, like what it who I used to be like. Old parts popped up, you know, the part of me that might have been, for example, competitive in the audition room with other women to notice how different I was and like walking up, like who will be my friends? I'll get to meet women in theater that I don't know.
Jeannine Yoder [01:12:05]
I was trying to form sisterhood with the girl who's competing for the part with me. And she was like, what the hell are you doing? Like you're going to, you're either going to get this part or I am. And I'm like, I know, isn't this heartbreaking? One of us is not going to get this.
Jeannine Yoder [01:12:18]
We can be in it together. She was not super here for it, but I was like, this is me now. This is so cool because I remember being different and then it triggered old parts to heal too. Like when I had to be in tights and a leotard for the first time in 10 years. It's like, Oh my God, I'm feeling this relationship to body shame has come back up.
Jeannine Yoder [01:12:39]
Oh, that's unexpected. So out of my element in in good ways. Like seeing how I'm like a woman now, a confident woman now, but then also places that show up for healing when you're in a new environment that when you're just in your mundane kind of every day, you've got it figured out. And then lo and behold, I booked the lead role and, you know, got to have this experience of 16 shows and, and it was amazing. I really was in my joy and so aligned and just grateful and felt very balanced in in motherhood, in work and creativity.
Jeannine Yoder [01:13:18]
And that's where I was saying at the beginning of the puck. I swear I am now why I'm in a state of confusion is because I think I thought the old me would have just like probably went all the way back into theater. Like, OK, now we're doing this now we're going to be the goal is Broadway again. It's got to be go big or go home or I've got to be the lead in every musical now and always be in a show. And people ask me, well, what, what's next?
Jeannine Yoder [01:13:42]
What are you going to do next? Because so many people had so much fun coming to see me in the show and were inspired and felt that aliveness in me this. So they're like, you're going to keep going with this, right? What's next? And I'm like, I don't know.
Jeannine Yoder [01:13:54]
Actually, I'm like, not sure what's next. And I'm in this confusion again. So it's that dance. I wasn't confused though those
two months, everything was aligned and great and felt good. And I think the dance is like for letting both parts feel good.
Jeannine Yoder [01:14:13]
It can feel good when it's clear and when it's all driving and aligned and it can clear the IT can feel good right now to not know, you know, to be open to what's next. And using my intuition to just follow the bread crumbs instead of like taking my bag of bread out and placing on my because that feels that visual. My bread here are the crumbs and I know exactly where they're leading. I'll do it myself instead of like what's possible. I love that.
Sarah Tacy [01:14:50]
Thank you. I just wrote down on this little this little piece of paper here. I received that, which may seem like it doesn't mean anything in this moment to the listeners, but whenever I give Janine a compliment, her responses, I receive that. And talking about the way good medicine goes around is that I've taken that on as a practice of not having to like explain something or play something down. And so much of what I've heard in this podcast is about your practice over, I think probably since motherhood about becoming a receiver.
Sarah Tacy [01:15:27]
And so now hearing I receive that has many more layers for me now. And you know, and you received a role and it doesn't mean that you have to hold on to it or hold on to that place. And part of receiving is that there's this like cyclical nature to it. And I do want to hear your story. And we are at times.
Sarah Tacy [01:15:51]
And I also told.
Jeannine Yoder [01:15:52]
You for another time.
Sarah Tacy [01:15:54] I do another one, I pulled out David White's Constellations right as we were getting settled, and I open it up to a page. And it's so interesting because in some ways we may be talking about the opposite of longing or that there's some part of it. And I think Audrey Lorde has a beautiful poem on longing, which maybe I'll put in the notes, but I opened up to this page and it's not even the beginning of his writing on it. There's so much of this I want to read, but I'm just going to honor that I opened up to this page and do it.
Jeannine Yoder [01:16:25]
But you could send to me later.
Sarah Tacy [01:16:28]
Longing is nothing without its dangerous edge that cuts and wounds us while setting us free and beckons us exactly because of the human need to invite the right kind of peril. The foundational instinct that we are here essentially to risk ourselves in the world, that we are a form of initiation to others and to other nests, and that we are meant to hazard ourselves for the right thing. Bank drop. Wow.
Jeannine Yoder [01:17:09]
That's so beautiful.
Sarah Tacy [01:17:12]
As I heard that, I heard so many parts of what we actually discussed.
Jeannine Yoder [01:17:16]
Yeah, me too. Yeah.
Sarah Tacy [01:17:19] T
hank you so much for coming on today.
Jeannine Yoder [01:17:21]
Thank you.
Sarah Tacy [01:17:23]
We didn't get into it, which was the breath work stuff. I will be part of Janine's next cohort in January. Do you want to say a thing or two?
Jeannine Yoder [01:17:32]
Well, you know, it's actually so fun. It's called winter. It's winter breath work for rebirth. So that's the name of the next breath work cohort. And it's six weeks meeting weekly.
Jeannine Yoder [01:17:44]
And I'll just say quickly that breath work is the one thing I've kept through my sabbatical outside of a couple one-on-one clients because it has the most profound impact to stay in flow and make life changing alterations in your cellular DNA and belief system without doing anything but breathing, which is kind of the whole point for me right now. It's like what is the most easy flowing way to break patterns and the quickest and breath work is that work for me. And it's so fun to do it with women. And it's so not ego based for me because really my work is creating epic playlist and doing some energy work. But the breath itself is really the tool and your own essence.
Jeannine Yoder [01:18:31]
So it's embody your essence. Winter breath work for rebirth. And if anyone wants to come and join us, you can find links to it on my Instagram and Sarah and I will be there practicing it and we'd love to have you.
Sarah Tacy [01:18:46]
Join us. Yeah, this will come out before that, I believe. So it would be so fun to have some listeners join us.
Jeannine Yoder [01:18:53]
Yeah, awesome.
Sarah Tacy [01:18:54]
Thank you so much for coming on today. Thank you for tuning in. It's been such a pleasure. If you're looking for added support, I'm offering a program that's totally free called 21 Days of Untapped Support. It's pretty awesome. It's very easy, it's very helpful. You can find it at sarahtacy.com and if you love this episode, please subscribe. And like, apparently it's wildly useful, so we could just explore what happens when you Scroll down to the bottom subscribe rate, maybe say a thing or two. If you're not feeling it, don't do it. It's totally fine. I look forward to gathering with you again. Thank you so much.